Texas Law on Using Substandard Degrees

[Kal Di]

I'm sure that Oxford and Cambridge master's degrees would be evaluated as being the equivalent of an accredited master's degree from the U.S. since Oxford and Cambridge are authorized by their governments to issue degrees. 

With a school like ENEB, there might be an issue since they are not authorized to award degrees, and Isabel I won't issue transcripts. You can try all the credential evaluation services to see which one will evaluate the degree as an accredited master's degree.

Sanantone I get lost with you logic. Please help me out.

Which part of the Spanish law, under which they operate, does not permit them to award "titulos propios" or associate with a University to recognize the content. I'm lost.

If they were authorized to award degrees, they wouldn't have to issue them through Isabel I.

Spain's higher education system is different than the United States. There are no titulo propio degrees in the United States. Those degrees exist in Spain for people who only care to work in the private sector. Many graduates of such degrees understand that they can't use that degree to get a job in government or academia.

I lived in Spain and knew people who were successful with only a titulo propio degree. Some foreigners also obtain such degrees because it's more affordable. In the United States, many employers in the private sectors (excluding the Fortune 500 companies) won't care if you got a titulo propio degree. They care more about what you have studied and what you can do at work.  

Can you name a Texas case, where someone got fined and/or imprisoned for using a titulo propio degree?

There are schools with degree-granting authority awarding titulo propio degrees, including private schools like Isabel I and public schools. That is not the issue. The issue is that ENEB does not have degree-granting authority, and Isabel I will not issue transcripts for their students.

ENEB issues their own transcripts because it's an independent school. Isabel I only certifies ENEB's degree programs. Titulo propio degrees are legal in Spain. They don't need to be accredited by a government organization to offer higher education to students.

The U.S. is similar in that many private U.S. postsecondary schools (e.g. career institutes, technical schools, religious schools, etc) aren't accredited by a USDOE regional accrediting agency, but are still legal to award degrees, certificates or certifications in their state.

Example: I graduated from a postsecondary career institute. They're not accredited by a USDOE regional accrediting agency, but they're approved by its state's department of education. So, they have a legal right to operate and award such certificates and certifications in their state.

[FastTrackDegree]

This thread makes me want the ENEB degree 

[sanantone]

Sanantone I get lost with you logic. Please help me out.

Which part of the Spanish law, under which they operate, does not permit them to award "titulos propios" or associate with a University to recognize the content. I'm lost.

If they were authorized to award degrees, they wouldn't have to issue them through Isabel I.

Spain's higher education system is different than the United States. There are no titulo propio degrees in the United States. Those degrees exist in Spain for people who only care to work in the private sector. Many graduates of such degrees understand that they can't use that degree to get a job in government or academia.

I lived in Spain and knew people who were successful with only a titulo propio degree. Some foreigners also obtain such degrees because it's more affordable. In the United States, many employers in the private sectors (excluding the Fortune 500 companies) won't care if you got a titulo propio degree. They care more about what you have studied and what you can do at work.  

Can you name a Texas case, where someone got fined and/or imprisoned for using a titulo propio degree?

There are schools with degree-granting authority awarding titulo propio degrees, including private schools like Isabel I and public schools. That is not the issue. The issue is that ENEB does not have degree-granting authority, and Isabel I will not issue transcripts for their students.

ENEB issues their own transcripts because it's an independent school. Isabel I only certifies ENEB's degree programs. Titulo propio degrees are legal in Spain. They don't need to be accredited by a government organization to offer higher education to students.

The U.S. is similar in that many private U.S. postsecondary schools (e.g. career institutes, technical schools, religious schools, etc) aren't accredited by a USDOE regional accrediting agency, but are still legal to award degrees, certificates or certifications in their state.

Example: I graduated from a postsecondary career institute. They're not accredited by a USDOE regional accrediting agency, but they're approved by its state's department of education. So, they have a legal right to operate and award such certificates and certifications in their state.

I can see that you do not understand the U.S. accreditation system. 

Regional accrediting agencies are not the only accrediting agencies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. The U.S. Department of Education also recognizes national accrediting agencies and specialized/programmatic accrediting agencies. The U.S. Department of Education recently got rid of its national/regional designations, though, so institutional accreditors are simply listed as institutional accreditors. There is no need to keep mentioning regional accrediting agencies in this context because those are not the only recognized accrediting agencies. 

For schools to legally operate within a state, they need to be licensed. Many states will require a school to become accredited within a certain number of years unless there is a valid religious exemption for a religious school. Texas requires that an unaccredited school offering courses to Texas residents receive a certificate of authority to grant, not only academic degrees and certificates, but also honorary degrees. If the school is based in Texas, it will eventually have to attain accreditation. In other words, schools that award degrees have degree-granting authority either through their accreditation or through state authorization. ENEB does not have government authorization to award degrees, which is why it uses Isabel I, and it linked up with an unaccredited school in Florida in a poor attempt to make their degrees more accepted. This move by ENEB was foolish because the U.S. system does not allow colleges and universities to award degrees on private, unrecognized schools' behalf.

[Thorne]

If they were authorized to award degrees, they wouldn't have to issue them through Isabel I.

But...they don't have to issue them through Isabel? ENEB's Titulo Propio is legal in its own right.

As for Isabel, the 1973 Organic Law of Universities says they can legally issue Titulo Propio degrees and Isabel is accredited and in the RUCT database. The issuance of these degrees doesn't violate the laws regarding degree conferral where the school is located and the parent school is accredited by RUCT and ANECA and is recognized under ACUCYL, ENQA, and EQAR. All of these are recognized accreditation in the location where the school operates, the most salient of which is the official government database (the Register of Universities, Centers, and Titles) which lists the school as one of their 70-something legally accredited institutions.

I'm not qualified to interpret the law, though I suspect you aren't either unless you're secretly hiding a J.D. or ABA license. That being said, I've only found a few cases where this code was applied in Texas, all of them related to people saying they had degrees from schools that they did not have degrees from. I've not found a single case so far where a holder of a foreign degree was tried for using their foreign degree.

Plus, the code doesn't specifically mention any accreditation agencies specifically, not in section 3021. It mentions this vague and ominous, "as determined...for the sake of this section." This seems to suggest that a WES or ECE equivalency wouldn't necessarily meet the requirements unless the review board agrees. In all honesty, it may mean that a degree from out of state is questionable if they aren't accredited by SACS or authorized by Texas law to issue degrees in the state.

I always find it amusing when people receive likes for being blatantly incorrect and not spending a minute to conduct research. That's no jab at you. I'm willing to provide the information, but it likely won't do anything for the cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. 

I'm not an attorney, but I know how to do research instead of making a bunch of assumptions that can easily be cleared up with the use of a search engine. The law is written for the public to read and apply. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. 

  (B) Upon the admission of a student to any graduate program, the institution shall document that the student is prepared to undertake graduate-level work by obtaining proof that the student holds a baccalaureate degree from an institution accredited by a recognized accrediting agency, or an institution holding a Certificate of Authority to offer baccalaureate degrees under the provisions of this chapter, or a degree from a foreign institution equivalent to a baccalaureate degree from an accredited institution. The procedures used by the institution for establishing the equivalency of a foreign degree shall be consistent with the guidelines of the National Council on the Evaluation of Foreign Educational Credentials or its successor.

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=19&pt=1&ch=7&rl=4

Why would there already be court cases over the ENEB degrees when the coupon deal hasn't been around for long? You're conflating the issue of foreign degrees with the issue of using a degree from a school that does not have degree-granting authority. Why would someone be taken to court over a foreign university that has degree-granting authority from its country? 

As for which U.S. accreditors THECB recognizes? That's easy to find on their website. Did you attempt a search before making that assertion? This would cut down on a lot of posts and wasted time. 

https://reportcenter.highered.texas.gov/agency-publication/miscellaneous/private-post-secondary-institution-accrediting-agencies-2018/

The State of Texas has banned the use of degrees from foreign schools based on other states' decisions and whether the schools had degree-granting authority from their government. To determine the equivalency of foreign degrees, the State of Texas uses NACES as its guide. 

http://www.ronkailey.com/InstitutionsWhoseDegreesAreIllegalToUseInTexas.html

  (ii) institutions located outside the United States that have demonstrated that their degrees are equivalent to degrees issued from an institution in the United States accredited by accrediting agencies recognized by the Board. The procedures for establishing that equivalency shall be consistent with the guidelines of the National Council on the Evaluation of Foreign Education Credentials, or its successor.

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=19&pt=1&ch=5&rl=46

I didn't talk about cases regarding ENEB? I was talking about cases regarding foreign degrees. I've never seen a case where a holder of a foreign degree was tried, let alone convicted, for using a foreign degree to seek general employment.

Rule 7.4 relates to admission into educational programs in Texas, it has no bearing on the legal status of degrees for things like employment in an unregulated field.
Rule 5.46 relates to the qualification of faculty based on foreign credentials, no bearing on anything like the legal status of degrees in an unregulated field.

Also "recognized accreditng agency" very specifically states that it is defined differently based on sections and subsections. In one section, it says that "recognized accrediting agency" is SACS and only SACS, in another it says it is discretionary, in yet another it says it is related to THECB. In these sections, THECB is related to academic admissions, SACS to a school that operates in Texas, discretionary to other degrees that come from out-of-state or out-of-country. This is because each subsection has its own definition which applies only to that subsection and states something like 'defined in this subsection related to this subsection' to clear that up.

Interestingly, it does mean that these programs are legitimate either as a Bachelor's degree or a Graduate Certificate (since some NACES members have published materials stating that propios are equivalent to a graduate certificate or graduate diploma) and no individual in Texas should need to even get an evaluation for teaching or enrolling in postsecondary courses since even a single positive evaluation from a NACES member clearly demonstrates that "their degrees are equivalent to degrees issued from an institution in the United States..." 

I've already determined that I'm only going to list the degree from UI1 within the state of Texas because I do recognize that ENEB is not recognized by the state as a degree-granting institution of its own right. UI1, however, is, and my degree is issued by them. This arrangement isn't really different from the old University of Wales scheme where random postsecondary learning centers in Malaysia or Singapore were able to issue a University of Wales degree to their students through articulation agreements.

[bjcheung77]

This thread makes me want the ENEB degree 

LOL, they have a special almost every day of the week, I got them on sale!

[sanantone]

I didn't talk about cases regarding ENEB? I was talking about cases regarding foreign degrees. I've never seen a case where a holder of a foreign degree was tried, let alone convicted, for using a foreign degree to seek general employment.

This is not about foreign degrees, in general. This is about foreign schools lacking degree-granting authority. Yes, foreign schools that lack degree-granting authority have been put on Texas' banned list. There's no need for a court case unless a person insists on still illegally using the degree. 

Rule 7.4 relates to admission into educational programs in Texas, it has no bearing on the legal status of degrees for things like employment in an unregulated field.
Rule 5.46 relates to the qualification of faculty based on foreign credentials, no bearing on anything like the legal status of degrees in an unregulated field.

Also "recognized accreditng agency" very specifically states that it is defined differently based on sections and subsections. In one section, it says that "recognized accrediting agency" is SACS and only SACS, in another it says it is discretionary, in yet another it says it is related to THECB. In these sections, THECB is related to academic admissions, SACS to a school that operates in Texas, discretionary to other degrees that come from out-of-state or out-of-country. This is because each subsection has its own definition which applies only to that subsection and states something like 'defined in this subsection related to this subsection' to clear that up.

The reason why you keep seeing different language on recognized accreditors is because, previously, THECB only listed SACS or equivalent agencies. Some documents and webpages are old. A few years ago, THECB started listing all U.S. Department of Education-recognized agencies to get rid of the confusion. I gave you the link to its most recent list. 

Interestingly, it does mean that these programs are legitimate either as a Bachelor's degree or a Graduate Certificate (since some NACES members have published materials stating that propios are equivalent to a graduate certificate or graduate diploma) and no individual in Texas should need to even get an evaluation for teaching or enrolling in postsecondary courses since even a single positive evaluated from a NACES member clearly demonstrates that "their degrees are equivalent to degrees issued from an institution in the United States..." 

I've already determined that I'm only going to list the degree from UI1 within the state of Texas because I do recognize that ENEB is not recognized by the state as a degree-granting institution of its own right. UI1, however, is, and my degree is issued by them. This arrangement isn't really different from the old University of Wales scheme where random postsecondary learning centers in Malaysia or Singapore were able to issue a University of Wales degree to their students through articulation agreements.

Do you remember the names of some of those schools? Several schools in Malaysia and Singapore are on Texas' illegal list. 

This is the current administrative code. Texas recognizes accreditors that are recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and qualified under Title IV. 

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/re...&ch=7&rl=6

[Kab]

It's simple. Does ENEB have degree-granting authority from Spain? That is what Texas is looking for. Will NACES evaluate an ENEB master's degree as an accredited master's degree? Texas relies on their evaluations. If it is not evaluated as an accredited master's degree, it might be illegal to advertise that you have a master's degree for employment purposes. If NACES does not recognize the ENEB degree as an accredited master's degree, will a transcript from Isabel I change the outcome, and can you get a transcript from Isabel I?

I don't understand your confusion. I am very well-versed on my country's accreditation system; you may not be. I don't know.

First of all: Thanks, now I get it. I will answer to the best of my knowledge to your points.

Does ENEB have degree-granting authority from Spain?

The short answer is YES. It can give a "master", which are a kind of títulos propios with at least 60 ETC of content or an equivalet of a minimum of 30 credits in the USA. What you mean maybe was if they can give "Masteres Oficiales". From this ones they cannot, you need to be a University under the stands of the Spanish goverment for that. Requisites to be a University are quite more tough than in USA and then you have to go across the proces to make each degree "oficial".

Will NACES evaluate an ENEB master's degree as an accredited master's degree?

Accredited means very few as a term, as accredited is just that somebody gives value to the degree being RA, NA, the State or a private accreditation agency.
If you mean RA accreditation, which I understand that is what you mean probably not because the guide until now has been that only "Masteres Oficiales" granted by a university receive this qualification.
The truth is valid in the other way around. In Spain anything that is not RA is not recognized as a university degree as far as I know. So it will be only valid as whoever that looks to the degree wants to put value in it, like a "titulo propio". Also oficial university degrees in Spain are from Bachelor up.

[Thorne]

Do you remember the names of some of those schools? Several schools in Malaysia and Singapore are on Texas' illegal list. 

This is the current administrative code. Texas recognizes accreditors that are recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and qualified under Title IV. 

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/re...&ch=7&rl=6

One was Fazley College, if I recall, and it's not on the list. Regardless, people with those degrees tended not to list "Fazley College" or "Random Postsecondary Place" but just "University of Wales," which did have authority to issue degrees and did issue their own degree to students of those other colleges.

Validation/articulation/certification is kind of a tricky thing here in the US, because we don't really know how to handle it. For people who went to Fazley, whenever they went elsewhere, the degree was from UoW. Three of my Aussie friends did a validated degree through an online platform back when they were offered, one of them actually got his citizenship and a government job listing his UoW MBA that he got by studying with a totally unaccredited provider in Singapore.

[sanantone]

It's simple. Does ENEB have degree-granting authority from Spain? That is what Texas is looking for. Will NACES evaluate an ENEB master's degree as an accredited master's degree? Texas relies on their evaluations. If it is not evaluated as an accredited master's degree, it might be illegal to advertise that you have a master's degree for employment purposes. If NACES does not recognize the ENEB degree as an accredited master's degree, will a transcript from Isabel I change the outcome, and can you get a transcript from Isabel I?

I don't understand your confusion. I am very well-versed on my country's accreditation system; you may not be. I don't know.

First of all: Thanks, now I get it. I will answer to the best of my knowledge to your points.

Does ENEB have degree-granting authority from Spain?

The short answer is YES. It can give a "master", which are a kind of títulos propios with at least 60 ETC of content or an equivalet of a minimum of 30 credits in the USA. What you mean maybe was if they can give "Masteres Oficiales". From this ones they cannot, you need to be a University under the stands of the Spanish goverment for that. Requisites  to be a University are quite more tough than in USA and then you have to go across the proces to make each degree "oficial".  

Let me clarify. Is ENEB authorized by Spain to award titulos propios? If it is, then why do they have their degrees issued by Isabel I.

Will NACES evaluate an ENEB master's degree as an accredited master's degree?

Accredited means very few as a term, as accredited is just that somebody gives value to the degree being RA, NA, the State or a private accreditation agency.
If you mean RA accreditation, which I understand that is what you mean probably not because the guide until now has been that only "Masteres Oficiales" granted by a university receive this qualification.
The truth is valid in the other way around. In Spain anything that is not RA is not recognized as a university degree as far as I know. So it will be only valid as whoever that looks to the degree wants to put value in it, like a "titulo propio". Also oficial university degrees in Spain are from Bachelor up.

NACES a U.S. association of credential evaluation services. So far, we have not heard that a NACES organization has evaluated an ENEB degree as an accredited master's degree. We've heard that it's been evaluated as a non-accredited master's degree, a regionally accredited bachelor's degree, and a regionally accredited graduate certificate. 

---

Do you remember the names of some of those schools? Several schools in Malaysia and Singapore are on Texas' illegal list. 

This is the current administrative code. Texas recognizes accreditors that are recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and qualified under Title IV. 

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/re...&ch=7&rl=6

One was Fazley College, if I recall, and it's not on the list. Regardless, people with those degrees tended not to list "Fazley College" or "Random Postsecondary Place" but just "University of Wales," which did have authority to issue degrees and did issue their own degree to students of those other colleges.

Validation/articulation/certification is kind of a tricky thing here in the US, because we don't really know how to handle it. For people who went to Fazley, whenever they went elsewhere, the degree was from UoW. Three of my Aussie friends did a validated degree through an online platform back when they were offered, one of them actually got his citizenship and a government job listing his UoW MBA that he got by studying with a totally unaccredited provider in Singapore.

Reading Governor Abbott's 2012 guidance from when he was attorney general, THECB can use its own discretion to determine if a school needs to seek a certificate of authority to offer degrees to people in Texas and whether that school will qualify for a certificate of authority. Unless it's coded, THECB can pretty much do what it wants. 

That leads me to this funny case. In 2007 or 2008, THECB did not recognize DETC even though it was recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. THECB now recognizes DEAC. Degrees from California Coast University were made illegal to use in Texas, not really because of lack of recognized accreditation because the school was licensed in California (recognized accreditation would have helped though), but because THECB determined that the level of work required for their degrees made them substandard. 

If you use CTRL-F, you'll find two stories on California Coast University. 

http://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/pigeons/

[Kal Di]

I have yet to see a Texas case where someone was fined and/or imprisoned for using a titulo propio degree. I have used my public library card's digital access to look through article archives about crimes regarding the use of foreign degrees. Do you want to know what I found about titulo propio degrees? Nothing!

ENEB may not be the best school for a master's degree, but it's definitely the most affordable. As long as you don't use it to apply for a job in government or academia, I would say it gives the best ROI for graduates looking for work in most of the private sector.