Older students and the liberal arts

[FinancialWorld]

I passed CLEP Sociology yesterday. I've never studied so little for an exam. After taking a few practice tests and finally the exam, I'm sick of the subject:puke: . That has to be the sickest subject I've ever studied. I know woman want to achieve more, and I'm not totally against that, but come on when everything is pro female this and that, and negative males on this, that, and that, it gets annoying.

The exam was very:
Environmentalist
Feminist (Totally anti male)
Socialistic
Anti-religion
Anti-family
Anti-American
Anti-National (Like, you can't even take pride in your nation and beliefs)
Anti-Freedom
And so on, and on.

I'm young and already I don't like to the way the country has been going for a long time. My life will probably be faced with many hardships fighting against the socialization of America. Socialization, according to the CLEP, is changing each person to fit in with society. Well the educators and leaders of our day are trying to shape us to fit their type of socialization. They are molding us the way they want us. Molded to into a kind of serfdom. The masses following the will of the "educated".

I think that the education I'm getting is probably the least liberal compared to universities and colleges out there, but I'm just doing it for the paper (and learn a little a long the way ). America is changing, but not the right kind of change. People are waking up out there. They are renewing our heritage, showing us what we have, showing us what our forefathers fought for. We basically have to reeducate ourselves. Thankfully I was homeschooled, but you still get influenced with the socialist agenda. Its everywhere. There is now way to avoid it.

We must work to rebuild the heritage and freedom that our forefathers and GOD gave us :patriot: .

I hope I didn't get too off topic:o .

[clep3705]

As someone who is approaching 60, I have to agree with what you have said but also can add that the history books are being rewritten. I also have read things in texts that did not jive with what I had learned and/or lived through, made that mental note you refer to and gone back to research the specific occurrent. I often found that the facts being taught were NOT correct or presented in a slanted view point and, rarely, when the information available at the time perhaps did not tell the whole story and those facts can now be seen in a broader view - but, overall, that was extremely rare. Perhaps once or twice at the most.

The U.S. History 2 CLEP was easy for me because I remembered so much of it. I lived through it.

When I'm really old, I'm going to either teach or take U.S. History. Pity the youngster teaching history who has me as a student. "Excuse me, that's not exactly right, I remember when it happened." Have fun with what you know!

[FinancialWorld]

"Excuse me, that's not exactly right, I remember when it happened." Have fun with what you know!

I'd love to be in that class. That would be so funny. :roflol: But that would be sad if the students have to start correcting the instructors on what actually happened. I guess if that started happening in my class, I'd quite. Why learn when you actually have to teach them. :eek:

[P00057870]

Truly, it would be both fun and funny - and yes, we might remember things differently, after all it does have something to do with each person's perspective and their personal experiences. :roflol:

That's one of the reasons I'm studying right now for Rise and Fall of the Soviet Union - I remember much of the more current events and it is certainly interesting to learn what lead up to those events.

[OE800_85]

I just don't like how people are either liberal or conservative in this world today. Either I have to be some communist tree hugging hippie, or I'm a un-educated gun toting redneck.

The students in university are adults, well performing ones at that. Their job is to critically examine information, I don't think you give them enough credit, and are treating them like children. Free speech is a two way street, if someone say something you don't agree with what can you really do?

Also there was a really interesting "dialogue" between Gates and Jobs regarding engineering or liberal arts study. It was argued that liberal arts grads might contribute more to society, particularly as entrepreneurs, as this education fosters critical thinking in every aspect of life.

[Scholar Interrupted]

Ryoder, I'm not quite as pessimistic as you are. I think a lot of things aren't working in our higher education system, but people are beginning to realize the emperor is naked, and the situation is bound to improve. As for India, I think a well-rounded education is important for turning out well-rounded people who know how to think, and I 'm not at all sure India is doing that effectively. There is even a recent WSJ article that calls the quality of Indian higher ed into question, noting, among other things, that many grads "lack a grasp of educational basics such as reading comprehension." That probably results from the lack of a sufficient liberal arts component.

[...]

Education is the battleground of thought and the left is winning.

[...]

The rest of the world doesn't even teach liberal arts in college. Ask any Indian how their BS went and it will be all technology or professional classes. There is zero liberal arts education after high school and they are kicking our buts in technology.

It's interesting how you seem to read things into what I wrote that I neither meant nor said. I said I'm not a liberal. I made no reference to gun-toting or tree-hugging, and in fact, I don't indulge in either activity. I also didn't pass any judgment on students but only stated the obvious facts of their situation. I didn't mention free speech at all. And finally, I don't know how you could take from my post that I was in any way disparaging liberal arts grads, since I am one. The liberal arts are what separate us from the animals.

I just don't like how people are either liberal or conservative in this world today. Either I have to be some communist tree hugging hippie, or I'm a un-educated gun toting redneck.

The students in university are adults, well performing ones at that. Their job is to critically examine information, I don't think you give them enough credit, and are treating them like children. Free speech is a two way street, if someone say something you don't agree with what can you really do?

Also there was a really interesting "dialogue" between Gates and Jobs regarding engineering or liberal arts study. It was argued that liberal arts grads might contribute more to society, particularly as entrepreneurs, as this education fosters critical thinking in every aspect of life.

Alison, your experience sounds like a great one (except for that one old lady ). You had instructors who appreciated the more seasoned perspective you brought to the classroom. I haven't taken a B&M class since I was 21, (a long time ago), and you almost make me wish I had. But I expect these experiences vary a lot according to where you're taking your classes.

I tried to get a fix on my Excelsior instructors as best I could. Only one had much of a "Google presence," though. And it's almost impossible to gauge where an instructor stands or how open-minded he might be when you're doing a CD-ROM course. In the one online course I took, I felt more or less "free to speak" because the instructor clearly had misgivings about some of the things he was required to teach us. He would add these little caveats here and there as if to say, "I have to teach you X, but you should know there is also Y. Make up your own mind."

My take on it is that as an older (over forty and fabulous) student that I could get away with so much more then the younger students in class. They actually noticed. I have taken many B&M classes and I feel that many of my professors noticed I wasn't 19 and noticed that I actually had a little life experience to back it up. I had one instructor that was OLD (I mean old) and she could not stand anyone's opinion but her own. Thank heavens she is gone now. I mean that for the new students coming into the program behind me. But she was a bit controlling with her behavior. Probably because of her underlying personality disorder. But as far as the rest of them went I actually think I had it easier then the young students.

[PonyGirl93]

I know woman want to achieve more, and I'm not totally against that, but come on when everything is pro female this and that, and negative males on this, that, and that, it gets annoying.

I agree that a lot of political mumbo-jumbo is ridiculously feministic, but the reality is that women are not making equal wages in a lot of jobs yet. I don't want to get too off topic here, just had to give my two cents I took the sociology test and I don't remember anything anti-male. Sure they presented the whacked-out feministic theories, but that is what an intro class is supposed to do: introduce you to the major theories in the field.

[ryoder]

People need to stop looking at statistics of income versus gender or color of skin and look at individual people.
Of course women make less than men. Its due to biology. I know many many women who went to college, got a job, worked 2-5 years and left for 10 years to raise a family. They are heroes in my opinion. But they do sacrifice earning potential to be the primary care giver.

Also I see women take more responsibility at home and leave meetings at 4:45 pm in order to be able to be home with the kids while their husbands work til 7pm. Its a culture thing. Men typically value achievement at work more than women do and women value forming bonds and relationships more than men. Its what makes us human. Read Men are From Mars and Women are From Venus and you will see that women are different than men.

Plenty of women make more than plenty of men. My boss is a woman and she makes a lot more than I do I am sure of that. Her husband stays at home with the kids and if he went back into the workforce he would make a third of her salary.

[Scholar Interrupted]

The history books are always being rewritten, which is as it should be. We're still learning things about the past, and may that process never stop.

It is disheartening how much of the younger generation have an entitlement mentality. There are plenty of exceptions to that rule, though, and many of them are right here among us on the IC forums. I find their intelligence and determination very reassuring. Also, I think the tough times we're experiencing now will bring a lot more young people around to the reality of what it takes to succeed, and many of them will adjust their attitudes. Most of them probably have the framework of what it takes but have been coddled so much it's kind of buried deep within them ... for now.

As someone who is approaching 60, I have to agree with what you have said but also can add that the history books are being rewritten. I also have read things in texts that did not jive with what I had learned and/or lived through, made that mental note you refer to and gone back to research the specific occurrent. I often found that the facts being taught were NOT correct or presented in a slanted view point and, rarely, when the information available at the time perhaps did not tell the whole story and those facts can now be seen in a broader view - but, overall, that was extremely rare. Perhaps once or twice at the most.

Since I work in a school, I hear many younger people talking and realize that they see our country through different eyes than my generation di, and I suspect it may not lead them or our country on a good path. They are more inclined to think in an "entitlement" view point. Someone (government) owes them something. I have had to remind them that we are the people who will be paying for this, the government only taxes us and redistributes what we have worked so very hard to earn.

Glad to know others have noticed some of these changes.

That's so interesting about CLEP Sociology. You have me wondering if I just forgot what it was like or was too dense at the time for it to sink in! In the historiography course I took in 2009, I did learn a good bit about the origins of the "science" of sociology, and they do square with your experience of the CLEP. So I don't doubt what you say at all. Maybe I just had a more reasonable instructor than most, in my sleepy little Arkansas community college in 1988.

I don't think there's any vast conspiracy, though. I don't give most of the activists credit for being that smart, determined, or well-organized; only a few are. The overwhelming majority of them are just useful idiots and don't understand the implications of what they're taking part in. With that in mind, I'm optimistic that we will see a backlash and a turn in a saner direction. We might even be on the front edge of one now.

One other thing: We atheists can be quite patriotic. A significant minority of us are classic liberals -- as opposed to the Nancy Pelosi variety. We believe you should be free to worship even if we don't, and we generally don't get uptight over public nativity scenes and such. We think people should do as they please as long as they aren't hurting other people.

I passed CLEP Sociology yesterday. I've never studied so little for an exam. After taking a few practice tests and finally the exam, I'm sick of the subject:puke: . That has to be the sickest subject I've ever studied. I know woman want to achieve more, and I'm not totally against that, but come on when everything is pro female this and that, and negative males on this, that, and that, it gets annoying.

[...]

We must work to rebuild the heritage and freedom that our forefathers and GOD gave us :patriot: .

I hope I didn't get too off topic:o .

Like another poster in this thread, you've interpreted my words rather creatively. I'm not sure who it is you're arguing with, but it's not me.

I think by exposing this bias you're being biased yourself. Who's to say what you learnt 20 years ago, or through your own limited personal experience, is right? I mean, I hate when teachers indoctrinate, but there are also people who try to indoctrinate a conflicting viewpoint. I was kind of an ass in class, I loved to disagree with teachers, from grade 3 onwards. Sometimes I was right, sometimes I was wrong, most of the time we had differing opinions on that. However I don't like the implication...are you saying we can't criticize America? America's NEVER done anything wrong? If you wanna impose ideas like that on professors I think we may as well adorn the swastika as our flag.

This is the free world, buddy. If you disagree with your professor, go right ahead, present your sources, make your argument, let your opinion be heard. If your prof is an educator worthy of any respect, he/she will appreciate your analysis, and perhaps you can engage each other and have a little debate. That's what being free is all about.

We all know History is written by the winners, and I'm sure there's bias in every section of every History book, it's impossible to be truly objective. In my opinion History is not about memorizing facts, it's about analysis, providing evidence in support of an argument about it. Otherwise I think it's a waste of time to learn dates/names.

**edit: Upon reading the article, I know what you mean, but it's also possible this was taken out of context. In sociology you're often analyzing the works of some authors, the teacher isn't necessarily presenting these opinions on her own, but the questions could have merely been a reading comprehension of the text, not necessarily a statement of some fact or figure
As well, it might be a little unfair, but who's to say this information is even true? There's no confirmation, as far as I'm concerned it could be hearsay. I hate when information is presented without evidence. Just exploring the possibilities we perhaps haven't thought about

[TheCommuter]

That's ok though, liberals hate America, and being a racist is acceptable, but only if it is towards white men. Don't say affirmative action is racist or you'll get fired!

1. I have liberal viewpoints and I absolutely do not hate America.

2. Racism against racial-ethnic minorities is still socially acceptable in the region where I currently live.

3. White women have gained the most from affirmative action since its inception, and since white females tend to marry white men, I can also say that affirmative action has indirectly benefited the white males who are married to these women.

The Real Affirmative Action Babies | The Root