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Older students and the liberal arts
#41
I'm not saying Europe has been impervious to economic collapse, but all the things I listed are still available to them. Frankly speaking, being born in America to a low-class family, particularly if you're a minority, is pretty bleak, in every way. That's something that should be fixed, but probably never will be.

About the grading issue, one possible reason is that people are experiencing a self fulfilling prophecy. You walk into class with strong beliefs, and to a professor who doesn't share yours. Instead of approaching his/her beliefs with an open mind, and a respectful, peaceful spirit of debate, you become angry, and "lose your cool" or pursue debate in a stand-offish fashion. The professor becomes angry in turn, tries to slam your idea, or perhaps gives you a bad grade out of bitterness. Thus, by having this attitude people have created this problem.

I'm not saying the professor is right in this case, but at least we can understand it better. I really believe that, if done in a respectful way, teachers are more than happy to seriously entertain debate. I was only in a B&M school for 2 years, but every one of my professors was delighted to have a serious conversation and encouraged it.
Goal - BA Mathematics Major at TESC
Plan: International AP Calculus Teacher

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B&M (Philosophy, Psychology, Calculus I/II, Physics I/II, Discrete Structures I/II, Comp Sci, Astronomy, Ethics)*42 credits
Athabasca (Nutrition, Globalization)*6 credits
ALEKS (Stats, Precalculus)*6 credits
CLEPS (College Math 73, A&I Lit 73, French 63, Social Sciences and History 59, American Lit 57, English Lit 59)*42 credits
TECEP (English Composition I, II)*6 credits
TESC Courses (MAT 270 Discrete Math A, MAT 321 Linear Algebra B, MAT 331 Calculus III B+, MAT 332 Calculus IV B-,
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DSST (MIS, Intro to Computing)*6 credits*(not using)
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#42
On history books:

Textbooks try to cram a lot into a single book. HISTORY OF EUROPE, 800 pages. Really? I have 1,000 page books on just the Norman conquests. Things get left out, but that is also where a quality instructor comes into their own. A true scholar of a field will know what is right and what is bogus and so there is benefit to the student for going to the class and learning.

On the discussions that have dominated this thread:

First a little vocabulary/diction lesson.

liberal: adjective: open to new behavior or opinions, willing to make changes that depart from traditionalist views.

conservative: adjective: holding traditionalist attitudes or values, cautious of change or innovation.

If you are using these words to mean anything other than the actual definition then you are using the wrong words.

Education does not equal intelligence, and that seems to have been quite elegantly displayed in this thread.
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#43
dcan Wrote:I have a real problem with this article. First, I like Walter Williams -- and LOVE Thomas Sowell, his books are incredible! But this entire bit about the sociology test sounds like BS to me. Someone "coincidentally" finds a test that is "coincidentally" scored at 100%, and it "coincidentally" completely supports your ideological viewpoint and shows your opposition to be the evil, dirty, underhanded bastards you always said they were. And "coincidentally" there is no source attribution, out of "fear of retribution" -- which just happens to be the same fear you whip up in your own followers!

Naaah, I'd really like Snopes to research this one.

I think this country is phenomenal in many ways, but I also think there is much deserved criticism. Capitalism is great, but corporate welfare and corporate domination is destructive. We have immense freedom, and a police system that just might beat you within an inch of your life if you dare videotape them. We believe myths about our nation promoting democracy while we support oppressive dictatorships. Not saying that isn't sometimes necessary, but lying about it aids the evil.

Left and Right are false dichotomies in America. What the Right calls "The Left" is really "slightly less Right" when considered against the true Left/Right divide in the rest of the world. America's "Left" still engages in foreign wars for dubious reasons, supports corporations and special interests over We The People, and generally doesn't give a rat's @ss about anything but maintaining power. Just like "the other side" they "oppose" and then go play golf with.

My initial reaction to the "found" exam was similar to yours. But I've never known Walter Williams to spread urban myths, so in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I decided to take his assertions at face value.

I don't think anyone here has said America shouldn't be criticized. We haven't denied that there are serious problems, many of which you mention (though you have exaggerated and/or over-generalized some things). But there is a difference between honest criticism aimed at alleviating injustices in an otherwise great country, and unthinking vilification that is ultimately sponsored by people who want to move us in toward authoritarian socialism.
Kelly
BS, History - Excelsior College - 2011
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#44
Scholar Interrupted Wrote:My initial reaction to the "found" exam was similar to yours. But I've never known Walter Williams to spread urban myths, so in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I decided to take his assertions at face value.

I don't think anyone here has said America shouldn't be criticized. We haven't denied that there are serious problems, many of which you mention (though you have exaggerated and/or over-generalized some things). But there is a difference between honest criticism aimed at alleviating injustices in an otherwise great country, and unthinking vilification that is ultimately sponsored by people who want to move us in toward authoritarian socialism.


I'm really struggling with your logic here. So you'll just believe anything he says, without evidence? Walter Williams has an agenda, just like everyone else.

Maybe it hasn't been said, but it's been strongly implied. In the article, Williams mentions many "quotes" of professors, and how anti-american they are. People get so defensive when america is criticized, it's quite annoying. It's like someone telling you the "check engine" light is flashing on your car, and you tell that person to "screw off"
Goal - BA Mathematics Major at TESC
Plan: International AP Calculus Teacher

COMPLETED: [B]123/B]
B&M (Philosophy, Psychology, Calculus I/II, Physics I/II, Discrete Structures I/II, Comp Sci, Astronomy, Ethics)*42 credits
Athabasca (Nutrition, Globalization)*6 credits
ALEKS (Stats, Precalculus)*6 credits
CLEPS (College Math 73, A&I Lit 73, French 63, Social Sciences and History 59, American Lit 57, English Lit 59)*42 credits
TECEP (English Composition I, II)*6 credits
TESC Courses (MAT 270 Discrete Math A, MAT 321 Linear Algebra B, MAT 331 Calculus III B+, MAT 332 Calculus IV B-,
MAT 361 College Geometry B+, MAT 401 Mathematical Logic B, LIB-495 Capstone B)*21 credits
DSST (MIS, Intro to Computing)*6 credits*(not using)
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#45
OE800_85 Wrote:I'm not saying Europe has been impervious to economic collapse, but all the things I listed are still available to them. Frankly speaking, being born in America to a low-class family, particularly if you're a minority, is pretty bleak, in every way. That's something that should be fixed, but probably never will be.

[...]

Europeans are losing their freebies as we speak. Just Google-search European austerity measures.

I sympathize with you on the plight of being born lower-class. I was born that way myself, and, as a white person, I couldn't turn to affirmative action programs for help.

But I submit that you would be worse off in Europe. You'd just have different (and more difficult) problems. You might have health care and education financed by high taxes on "the wealthy." But you would also face a class structure that is far more rigid than anything the United States has ever had -- even before it was the United States.

You might also find jobs a bit scarce in countries where employers are forced to provide lavish benefit packages (higher cost per employee = fewer people hired) and where it's nearly impossible to terminate redundant or non-performing employees (high risk of getting stuck with lazy, incompetent, or unnecessary workers = fewer people hired).
Kelly
BS, History - Excelsior College - 2011
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#46
OE800_85 Wrote:I'm really struggling with your logic here. So you'll just believe anything he says, without evidence? Walter Williams has an agenda, just like everyone else.

Maybe it hasn't been said, but it's been strongly implied. In the article, Williams mentions many "quotes" of professors, and how anti-american they are. People get so defensive when america is criticized, it's quite annoying. It's like someone telling you the "check engine" light is flashing on your car, and you tell that person to "screw off"

As I said earlier, you don't seem to be arguing with me. You seem to be arguing with your own notion of an archetypical conservative, which I'm not. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Kelly
BS, History - Excelsior College - 2011
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#47
grauwulf Wrote:liberal: adjective: open to new behavior or opinions, willing to make changes that depart from traditionalist views.

conservative: adjective: holding traditionalist attitudes or values, cautious of change or innovation.

If you are using these words to mean anything other than the actual definition then you are using the wrong words.

Education does not equal intelligence, and that seems to have been quite elegantly displayed in this thread.

What's your point?

In modern English it's pretty well known that someone on that far left is a "liberal" and someone on the far right is a "conservative." In common useage that's how we use those words when discussing politics.
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#48
OE800_85 Wrote:People in these countries:
Pay next to nothing for great education
Have strict employment policies that protect the employee
Get free, high quality medical care
Receive 1 year maternity leave
Have a large middle class that has a say in how their gov't operates
Have much fewer problems with race/gender discrimination

But what do you do when you run out of someone else's money to spend? You can make anything look good by only looking at half the story. I don't want the government in every little aspect of my life. China just arrested people for attending a non-state approved Easter service. I enjoy the freedom to do what I please as long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others.
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#49
First of all, china is in no way a socialist state. They pretend to be, but in fact are strikingly similar to the us, with two key differences in govt, accountability and transparency. However, as a foreigner in china, you make decent money, its very similar to being rich in the us. I love it now but could never bear the hardships of the farmers and factory workers that comprise so much of this country. Socialism doesn't refer to the distribution of power, but the distribution of wealth. So, if you get fired, lose your job, there are excellent welfare programs, there is a ton of govt subsidized housing, and so on. I feel that when we are children, I also remember these days, we were indoctrinated to hate socialism and taught quite a bit of McCarthyisms. Perhaps the situation is not so great now, but that's the case for most of the world, and is not special to them.

More data to consider? Americas life expectancy lags behind most countries, as does infant mortality. Incarceration rates are ridiculous, and prison populations are comparable to small countries. Personal debt is astronomical. Test scores are embarrassing.

However, if you're rich, you can have the best of the best. In socialist countries you won't get the best of the best, but you'll have balance.

Also I am debating with scholars viewpoint because the article presented has an agenda and that's to make "the left" sound evil and sneaky.
Goal - BA Mathematics Major at TESC
Plan: International AP Calculus Teacher

COMPLETED: [B]123/B]
B&M (Philosophy, Psychology, Calculus I/II, Physics I/II, Discrete Structures I/II, Comp Sci, Astronomy, Ethics)*42 credits
Athabasca (Nutrition, Globalization)*6 credits
ALEKS (Stats, Precalculus)*6 credits
CLEPS (College Math 73, A&I Lit 73, French 63, Social Sciences and History 59, American Lit 57, English Lit 59)*42 credits
TECEP (English Composition I, II)*6 credits
TESC Courses (MAT 270 Discrete Math A, MAT 321 Linear Algebra B, MAT 331 Calculus III B+, MAT 332 Calculus IV B-,
MAT 361 College Geometry B+, MAT 401 Mathematical Logic B, LIB-495 Capstone B)*21 credits
DSST (MIS, Intro to Computing)*6 credits*(not using)
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#50
Quote:Also, I think people are dramatizing a bit when they say a professor will fail them for not coinciding with their beliefs, I call bullshit on that, anyone who acts in such a way should not be a teacher. If that happened, i'm sure there would be bigger scandals and even legal recourse against the schools, and it'd be huge news.

Entire organizations exist because of the Leftist bias in higher education. See Campus Reform for Conservative-focused issues, and Campus Watch for a focus on injecting political views on the Middle East into class material.

It's such a widely-known issue that there are only two explanations:

1) Everyone who has seen the evidence is an idiot.

2) You don't know what is really going on.
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