New DBA on Upgrad by ESGCI

[smartdegree]

...what you should be looking at is Ministère de l'enseignement supérieur https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/fr (Ministry of Higher Education)
The French education Ministry is split into two main entities.

Thanks Harry for that link.  ESGCI appears several times on the website you shared:

1) List of recognized grandes ecoles 
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...369943.pdf
(See pages 273 and 277)

2) Statement from the Ministère de l'enseignement supérieur
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...0/download
(See page 11 for the recognition statement)

Moreover, Universitat Barcelona, arguably the #1 university in Spain, lists ESGCI in its partner university evaluation (see page 245):

https://www.ub.edu/economiaempresa-inter...ations.pdf


I believe this info + the WES Canada evaluations are sufficient to prove that ESGCI (the institution) is legit.  Now whether the DBA is considered equivalent in the US/Canada is a separate question, as even UK DBAs are recognized by WES as equivalent to masters.

[Harry101]

Il get back to you. Website migration commands are not a good sign. Gonna have to pin those.

[Kab]

...what you should be looking at is Ministère de l'enseignement supérieur https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/fr (Ministry of Higher Education)
The French education Ministry is split into two main entities.

Thanks Harry for that link.  ESGCI appears several times on the website you shared:

1) List of recognized grandes ecoles 
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...369943.pdf
(See pages 273 and 277)

2) Statement from the Ministère de l'enseignement supérieur
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...0/download
(See page 11 for the recognition statement)

Moreover, Universitat Barcelona, arguably the #1 university in Spain, lists ESGCI in its partner university evaluation (see page 245):

https://www.ub.edu/economiaempresa-inter...ations.pdf


I believe this info + the WES Canada evaluations are sufficient to prove that ESGCI (the institution) is legit.  Now whether the DBA is considered equivalent in the US/Canada is a separate question, as even UK DBAs are recognized by WES as equivalent to masters.

Misleading what you wrote about UB of Spain. The document show that in 2015 and only in that year a group of 5 person participated in an exchange. As I understand people moved to the UB from there. And while the usual is each year students move both sides go from one university to the other, in this occasion was only once and only in one direction. I do not know what happened that made it stop. The info only affects the faculty of economics and business, we aware of that.

[smartdegree]

...what you should be looking at is Ministère de l'enseignement supérieur https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/fr (Ministry of Higher Education)
The French education Ministry is split into two main entities.

Thanks Harry for that link.  ESGCI appears several times on the website you shared:

1) List of recognized grandes ecoles 
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...369943.pdf
(See pages 273 and 277)

2) Statement from the Ministère de l'enseignement supérieur
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...0/download
(See page 11 for the recognition statement)

Moreover, Universitat Barcelona, arguably the #1 university in Spain, lists ESGCI in its partner university evaluation (see page 245):

https://www.ub.edu/economiaempresa-inter...ations.pdf


I believe this info + the WES Canada evaluations are sufficient to prove that ESGCI (the institution) is legit.  Now whether the DBA is considered equivalent in the US/Canada is a separate question, as even UK DBAs are recognized by WES as equivalent to masters.

Misleading what you wrote about UB of Spain. The document show that in 2015 and only in that year a group of 5 person participated in an exchange. As I understand people moved to the UB from there. And while the usual is each year students move both sides go from one university to the other, in this occasion was only once and only in one direction. I do not know what happened that made it stop. The info only affects the faculty of economics and business, we aware of that.

Fantastic insight, thank you for pointing out that I am misleading.  I hope my WES links aren't misleading either?  Or do you think WES is a misleading organization as well?  People in this forum should replace WES since they can recognize institutions better than WES.  That is so awesome Mr. Kab and Mr Harry101 - you are the best.

I guess we can just ask US and Canadian employers to post here and ask Mr. Kab and Mr Harry what they think of foreign degrees - no need for credential evaluators like WES, right?. Mr. Kab and Mr. Harry will do it for free too and point out that others are misleading. Thanks so much.

[Kab]

You are very much welcome for giving me the thanks and accepting you where misleading. We all write in a hurry and quick, missteps happens. Forget about it. No my dear @smartdegree, I cannot speak for WES but I can read the report you posted. In no way shape or form assures any accreditation of the institution being discussed. They do not mention anything about the level the other institution has. Just that they exchanged students. In this case one way and only in one occasion. Since this is unusual since most of the other places keep some kind of repeated relationship, and that point calls my attention.

I had the perception that you tried to pass a report of the international office showing the statistics of student movement as some kind of accreditation or possible predictor of accreditation in a third country. I tough, and think, this is misleading in the way you did it and with which report you did it. It is my opinion, I am human and I can be wrong. I was disappointed by your action because I care about the UB. In fact I know it quite well, since is my alma matter. Also from my parents, many friends and part of my extended family. So I please ask you to be indulgent with me when I see comments as the one you posted and I react showing my disappointment since it affected me personally. I know how hard the people there keep working to make the institution one of the best and the effort they place to keep quality, even in times when financial resources has been diminishing and crisis strikes, just that the students can get the best education.

If you want to know if in the following years after 2017 they keep any relationship between the parts, this is the web page to check: https://www.ub.edu/economiaempresa-inter...es-anuals/
They look quite delayed in the publications. Maybe now they post in the internal system of the uni or just stopped everything because of COVID. I do not know. If it is really important for you keep checking it and make everybody know if the relationship keep going on.

The other thing I can tell about WES is how a UB degree, mine, was evaluated by WES but not how others can be. Sorry I cannot be of more help here. I can guess if you like... but nothing else.
Thanks for trying to be nice with me, calling me the best, awesome, etc. There is no need for it, but is so nice to know how you feel. So come here give me a virtual hug and lets be BFF. God bless your heart.

[Harry101]

I will not go into inspect element details, so i will make this simple. Those two links are false links to the "French Education Ministry". The French Ministry streams/host their data and should you wish you can also download them (not be promp downloaded to something being hosted in Wordpress). And you would have been able to search and find them in the ministries website if they where authentic.
Bellow is an example how it usually looks:
https://data.enseignementsup-recherche.g...calisation <= Diplomas awarded in public institutions under the supervision of the Ministry of Higher Education and Research ...Yes a complete list (750 MB .csv file) i know people tried to discredit the French Ministry in the thread.

And if it was not obvious ;
enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/fr/media/390/download <= pretty sure they spell it medias in the correct (French) domain, also in the authentic domain are videos not pdf files

This is a small guide:
1. https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/fr/medias >> 2. https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...ants-49162 <== This is how it looks like once you open one of those posts in the Medias section.
Il leave this to the mods

Btw i wanted also to explain to people how easy and simple it is to browse websites;
- For all the Mac users: In the Safari app on your Mac, go to the web page you want to translate. If the web page can be translated, the Smart Search field displays the Translate button . Click the
Translate button , then choose a language.
- While Microsoft Edge browser has you covered from the get go by asking a promp to translate what ever language you want on non English website.

I am going to point this one more time, even if it was as you implied, then they should be listed and found easy on the respected 5 links (i linked in this thread) as i demonstrated with HEC Paris or ESCP, but they are NOT. I have no clue why make this exercise in false government links. Never mind they are not on ANABIN.

People please thread carefully with UpGrad. Their last DBA from SSBM Geneva (which also turned out to be diploma mill) got completely removed from UpGrad's website and there subsidiary Talentedge in only a 2 year partnership. (for a PhD/DBA!)

[smartdegree]

I spoke with my boss who is originally from Paris and graduated from EDHEC. She explained to me how accreditation works for business schools. She says some business schools are considered professional education and not academic education and thus are accredited through a separate system for vocational and professional qualifications.

I did some googling and here's a great explanation of this parallel professional education system, including how the qualifications work:
https://www.culture.gouv.fr/en/Thematic/...ifications
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/J...0037964754

All professional qualifications are accredited, not through the ministry of higher education, but through France Competences, a government body that accredits each professional qualification and lists them in an official registry called the RNCP (Répertoire national des certifications professionnelles).

For the Grandes Ecoles, some of their diploma / degree programs will be accredited by the Ministry of Higher Education, while others will be through the RNCP.

The way to search for accreditation of professional qualifications is to look at the RNCP codes provided by the school and check whether they are accredited by the RNCP.  

For example, for ESCP's MBA in international management:
https://escp.eu/programmes/MBA-in-intern...management
At the bottom of the webpage it says: "This degree, recognised worldwide, is registered on the RNCP (French Register of Professional Certifications) – RNCP sheet 35570."

For HEC Paris another example:
https://www.hec.edu/en/mba-programs/exec...experience
It says "The HEC Paris MBA and EMBA are accredited to grant a Master’s degree under European Standards and, by extension, are registered on RNCP (Répertoire national des certifications professionnelles)."

Clearly you can see the importance of the RNCP as a way of validating government approval of the qualification.  

You can search qualifications in the RNCP through this website:
https://www.francecompetences.fr/recherc...sionnelle/

In the case of ESGCI, the list the RNCP qualification numbers for each qualification on their website:
https://www.esgci.com/marketing-commerce
It says "Titre de Responsable du Développement Commercial délivré par ESGCV-ESGCI, NSF 312 - Niveau 6. Enregistré au RNCP sous le numéro 36610 par décision du Directeur Général de France Compétences du 01/07/2022"

It basically means to look at RNCP code 36610 to verify this qualification with the government.  All you need to do is go to the francecompetences / RNCP website to verify:
https://www.francecompetences.fr/recherc...sionnelle/

In short, ESGCI is not a higher education institution, it is a professional qualification provider with bachelor/master level qualifications that have been accredited by the RNCP.  The confusion lies in how French business schools market these professional qualifications as "masters" even though technically they are not academic masters but masters-level professional qualifications.

[ashkir]

Note: I and other mods cleaned up some argument posts in here.

Note about Upgrad: Upgrad is a reseller organization that sells online degrees similar to ENEB. They're accredited by various boards, etc, but, they may range from being a gold standard in some countries to being outright shady for other degrees. Whichever program you wish to do on Upgrad do your own research. Upgrad primarily targets Indian students and has surged in popularity after Australia banned Indian students. Thus, is why you often see a lot of Australian universities or island nations under those territories.

Upgrad is known for being pricey and inflexible about dates. They often use third-world graders that have a lack of understanding in English or the language of programs they're offering with. The degrees are awarded as a "partnership with" and not from the actual university. I've contacted them in the past for some diploma examples and it will say Upgrad on them. Unless this changed recently.

Upgrad is no different than ENEB or Ducere. If it helps you reach your goal, do it. If it's not to your liking, move on from this thread and make other threads about great programs that you find!

[LevelUP]

All this stuff about foreign accreditation is a bit complex, so I try to stay out of these conversations.

Everyone is allowed to debate but play nice.

[cacoleman1983]

A question about WES Canada... Do they use the same grading conversion and credit hour conversion that the US does? If they do, I'm willing to bet that using WES Canada instead of WES USA may fair well for US citizens since the evaluation of grades and credits are still the same despite the purposes being for different countries. It's evident that the recognition and accreditation standards are different but it seems doable to use WES Canada if an employer or school here in the US requires WES in general.