New DBA on Upgrad by ESGCI

[Eran]

@Eran  

The problem is that the second link you posted deals with ; 

•  - "APPLICATION FOR CONSULTATION AND MAPPING OF ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE FRENCH EDUCATION SYSTEM"  for an Academy based of Lyon calling itself <<Lycée professionnel Alexandre Bérard - - Lycée des métiers de l'énergie et de l'habitat     or translated
  << Alexandre Bérard Vocational High School - High school for energy and housing professions >>  https://alexandre-berard.ent.auvergnerhonealpes.fr/
  

• Which looks fine and everything in order. But the problem is it is not related to ESG or ESGCI.
  

The first link is dated from back in 2008 for École supérieure de gestion et de commerce international de Paris on the address "25 rue Saint Ambroise 75011 Paris". Which is also not related.

As i express in my past post ( and since my posts i got an email about these from the ENIC representative)  ESG/ESGCI need to be listed in the two links i provided;
1. https://www.cefdg.fr/fr/ecoles-et-formations-visees
2. https://data.enseignementsup-recherche.g...eur/table/

and then find if they are listed by the Government for Doctorates on this link:
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...e-de-46529

But since we are dealing here with DBA-s they probably are not regulated in the first place so no oversight is needed from the Government. But the qualification verification remains questionable on the labor market.

Hey,

Let's start from the first link, indeed the registered address is 25 rue Saint Ambroise 75011 Paris.
Go to google maps and you will see ESGCI university located there.
As above, the first link shows the full name of the university, including the initials ESGCI.

Regarding the second link: it was not transmitted properly, but go to the link:
https://www.education.gouv.fr/acce_public/index.php

And there you will look for the name of the institution: École supérieure de gestion et de commerce international 
The institution ESGCI  will be presented to you as recognized by the state from 1994 including the renewal of its accreditation from March 2023, to make it easier for you I have uploaded a screenshot translated from French to English by Google Translate.

No matter how you spin it, the French state recognizes the institution, in one way or another.
2 links from the French Minisry of Education it is more than enough.


Good day.

[Harry101]

Guess il have to go into TLDR. I feel like it needs to be emphasized that the topic at hand was always higher education accreditation and DBA/PhD's. Also a notion, if it's Ecole it can not be therefore University.

From the Ministry;

"Higher education is free, but the State is the only one to issue degrees and university titles: private educational establishments (Les écoles de commerce et de gestion) cannot therefore issue national diplomas. However, once they are recognized by the State, business schools can issue diplomas approved by the Ministry of Higher Education and Research after evaluation by a national body: the training evaluation commission and Management Diplomas (CEFDG), created for this purpose!"

"Training quality control
The CEFDG's mission is to control the quality of the training offered and, through its assessments, proposes to the Minister the authorization to issue a diploma in question. This can be granted by ministerial decree after consulting the CNESER. In order to respond to a desire for transparency and information on training in private schools in the field of management, there is a website http://www.cefdg.fr: it includes the list of targeted training. Only the courses listed on this site are authorized by the M.E.S.R. to issue a diploma on behalf of the State and to confer the degree of master."

This was the first link in my posts;
1. https://www.cefdg.fr/fr/ecoles-et-formations-visees

"This site is intended for all players in higher education interested in training delivered by business and management schools, recognized by the State and subject to evaluation by the Commission for the Evaluation of Training and Management Diplomas (CEFDG).

On this site are present the training courses of business and management schools (écoles de commerce et de gestion), private or consular, authorized by the State to issue a diploma aimed at level Bac + 3 to Bac + 5 and which can, if necessary, confer the grade license or master's degree to their holders.

The CEFDG is the only competent national body for the evaluation of training in this field and it guarantees their quality!"

This covers all the registered Higher educational Institutions accredited.
For the programs they offer, Bachelor and Master. For PhD's this site is for reference:
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...orat-46523

Lets take an example, for instance HEC Paris, a well know Institution on this sub. You will find HEC Paris listed https://www.cefdg.fr/fr/ecoles-et-formations-visees and on top of it https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...orat-46523 with ease. But you will not find ESGCI on those two.

"No matter how you spin it, the French state recognizes the institution, in one way or another.
2 links from the French Minisry of Education it is more than enough."

<< It does just not for higher education.

[Eran]

Guess il have to go into TLDR. I feel like it needs to be emphasized that the topic at hand was always higher education accreditation and DBA/PhD's. Also a notion, if it's Ecole it can not be therefore University.

From the Ministry;

"Higher education is free, but the State is the only one to issue degrees and university titles: private educational establishments (Les écoles de commerce et de gestion) cannot therefore issue national diplomas. However, once they are recognized by the State, business schools can issue diplomas approved by the Ministry of Higher Education and Research after evaluation by a national body: the training evaluation commission and Management Diplomas (CEFDG), created for this purpose!"

"Training quality control
The CEFDG's mission is to control the quality of the training offered and, through its assessments, proposes to the Minister the authorization to issue a diploma in question. This can be granted by ministerial decree after consulting the CNESER. In order to respond to a desire for transparency and information on training in private schools in the field of management, there is a website http://www.cefdg.fr: it includes the list of targeted training. Only the courses listed on this site are authorized by the M.E.S.R. to issue a diploma on behalf of the State and to confer the degree of master."

This was the first link in my posts;
1. https://www.cefdg.fr/fr/ecoles-et-formations-visees

"This site is intended for all players in higher education interested in training delivered by business and management schools, recognized by the State and subject to evaluation by the Commission for the Evaluation of Training and Management Diplomas (CEFDG).

On this site are present the training courses of business and management schools (écoles de commerce et de gestion), private or consular, authorized by the State to issue a diploma aimed at level Bac + 3 to Bac + 5 and which can, if necessary, confer the grade license or master's degree to their holders.

The CEFDG is the only competent national body for the evaluation of training in this field and it guarantees their quality!"

This covers all the registered Higher educational Institutions accredited.
For the programs they offer, Bachelor and Master. For PhD's this site is for reference:
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...orat-46523

Lets take an example, for instance HEC Paris, a well know Institution on this sub. You will find HEC Paris listed https://www.cefdg.fr/fr/ecoles-et-formations-visees and on top of it https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...orat-46523 with ease. But you will not find ESGCI on those two.

"No matter how you spin it, the French state recognizes the institution, in one way or another.
2 links from the French Minisry of Education it is more than enough."

<< It does just not for higher education.

In France there are 89,940 recognized educational institutions - from high schools, colleges and universities.
120 selected institutions appear in the lists you are presenting.
But this does not mean that the one not on the list is not a recognized institution for research and studying academic degrees.
I don't understand why it is difficult for you to acknowledge that the state recognizes the institution when I sent you 2 definitive references on the matter including the name of the institution, address, study specialization from the French government websites.

Everyone will do as they wish. Successfully

[Harry101]

"I don't understand why it is difficult for you to acknowledge that the state recognizes the institution"

It is mostly cause of posts like these. No where did i say the state does not recognize the institution. Only that they are not registered by the State as a higher educational institutions to grants those level of diplomas.

"I sent you 2 definitive references on the matter including the name of the institution, address, study specialization from the French government websites."

- What you sent was an application to the Ministry for license. And btw that is one link. ( not to forget in your first post you posted a link for a completely different institution)

"In France there are 89,940 recognized educational institutions - from high schools, colleges and universities."
- This information is misleading. So i will provide some links and data bellow.

https://www.campusfrance.org/en/institut...ion-France

"In France, there are more than 3,500 public and private institutes of higher education. Universities, Grandes Ecoles and schools of art or architecture: there is a wide choice for foreign students who want to study in France."

https://eurydice.eacea.ec.europa.eu/nati...-education

"There are 13 free private higher education institutions (including 5 Catholic institutions) that offer general education. They cannot issue national diplomas but may cooperate with scientific, cultural and vocational public institutions and allow their students to take exams in order to obtain a national diploma.
Private technical higher education institutions have a more vocational profile: they are engineering colleges and business and management schools. There are currently 44 private engineering colleges and 24 private business schools."

- As you can see yes the number is quite smaller once you back it up with official data.

"120 selected institutions appear in the lists you are presenting"

- the page is listing 200 programs, but the number of Institutions on the page is around 40-50 which the Eurydice link confirms.

"But this does not mean that the one not on the list is not a recognized institution for research and studying academic degrees."

- According to you. But the State website is of different opinion. And i for once trust more the state representative and what is provided through official channels.(websites)

I will exclude my self from further posting untill a new or relevant information is provided.

[Sagan]

It appears the school is recognized, but not for issuing these doctorates?

[bjcheung77]

It's a little confusing, I think they're recognized and also authorized to provide degrees (maybe not up to the doctorate level). It really depends on how you read through all this legal details or legislation in regards to accreditation or recognition of their degrees. I would also take the time to review what is mentioned on the sister board as well since that board has several posts/threads that are being updated with the same subject/topic (I linked to them earlier in the thread)...

[Kab]

It appears the school is recognized, but not for issuing these doctorates?

Maybe the BUSINESS is recognized.
Think that around the world the legal aspects are different from the ones in your own country.
You can have an education business but this is not the same as a University or an institution that can give university level degrees. Also think that each country(at least in Europe) have concrete names for the degrees and these are protected. Also the institution that can grant this types of degrees are in databases, and the degree themselves are also.

If they have the abilities to give a valid official degree they have a special recognition status which is protected by law. You can check it. This is different to an inscription as an educational business and completely different that only applying for it ( and still waiting to be or has been not granted).

A warning sign is that somebody is offering a piece of paper with a name that is not the official name of a recognized and protected degree.
Another big warning is that somebody says they do not follow the normal or official ways of the country.

[smartdegree]

The French system is just as confusing as the Spanish one (where there are official and propio degrees). The elite schools in France are not universities, but rather what they call "grandes ecoles". The grandes ecoles offer a variety of degrees - some accredited by the french government, some by the conference of grandes ecoles, and some have no accreditation and are called "private diplomas".

For example, one of the elite schools in France, ESCP, offers online masters without accreditation which is noted in their website as a "private diploma".
This non-accredited degree is particularly popular at ESCP:

https://escp.eu/programmes/executive-mas...l-business
If you go to the fees and financing section, at the bottom you will see:
*ESCP declares that this programme is a private ESCP diploma.

Even if not accredited, ESCP considers graduates of this program as their own masters grads. So they are able to benefit from ESCP's network of alumni and recruiters. So in reality, the concept of non-accredited degrees is not uncommon in France. It really depends on the institution offering it.

Now regarding ESGCI, even if their DBA degree were a private diploma / not accredited, it would still have value because of the degree's affiliation with the ESG Group, which includes the FT-ranked Paris School of Business. However, the recognition might not be as broad as a government accredited one. The only real way to be sure is for someone to have it evaluated by credential evaluators - like propios, some will recognize, others will not. What this DBA certainly is not though is a diploma mill - it seems well structured and organized according to a member of our sister board.

[Harry101]

The French system is just as confusing as the Spanish one (where there are official and propio degrees).  The elite schools in France are not universities, but rather what they call "grandes ecoles".  The grandes ecoles offer a variety of degrees - some accredited by the french government, some by the conference of grandes ecoles, and some have no accreditation and are called "private diplomas".  

For example, one of the elite schools in France, ESCP, offers online masters without accreditation which is noted in their website as a "private diploma".  
This non-accredited degree is particularly popular at ESCP:

https://escp.eu/programmes/executive-mas...l-business
If you go to the fees and financing section, at the bottom you will see:
*ESCP declares that this programme is a private ESCP diploma.  

Even if not accredited, ESCP considers graduates of this program as their own masters grads.  So they are able to benefit from ESCP's network of alumni and recruiters.  So in reality, the concept of non-accredited degrees is not uncommon in France.  It really depends on the institution offering it.  

Now regarding ESGCI, even if their DBA degree were a private diploma / not accredited, it would still have value because of the degree's affiliation with the ESG Group, which includes the FT-ranked Paris School of Business.   However, the recognition might not be as broad as a government accredited one.  The only real way to be sure is for someone to have it evaluated by credential evaluators - like propios, some will recognize, others will not.  What this DBA certainly is not though is a diploma mill - it seems well structured and organized according to a member of our sister board.

ESCP is fully accredited for higher education from the French Ministry. You can find them with eass:
1. https://www.cefdg.fr/fr/ecoles-et-formations-visees
2. https://data.enseignementsup-recherche.g..._assimiles

Even in ANABIN holding H +/- mostly cause of its Grand Ecole status but il let the image explain that it's not problematic for the German Konferenz:
https://ibb.co/7vNpZ4N

And you can find ESCP listed in the Ministry to award Doctorate;
https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.go...orat-46523

You even have ESCP listed in hceres:
https://www.hceres.fr/en/rechercher-une-...ess-school

So ESCGI and ESCP are not even in the same league. As for the ESC and ESCGI you must be listed if you are not under a University on your own in the Ministry registry. You cant use proxy accreditation from Paris School.
Also if people where not aware the link Eran was probably linked by someone in ESCGI or Upgrad is a simple application for license from the: Ministère de l'Éducation nationale, de l'Enfance et de la Jeunesse https://www.education.gouv.fr (Ministry of National Education and Youth)

...what you should be looking at is Ministère de l'enseignement supérieur https://www.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/fr (Ministry of Higher Education)
The French education Ministry is split into two main entities.

[smartdegree]

After doing some research on Linkedin, I found that WES Canada recognizes ESGCI:

Here are the WES evaluations of some people who graduated from ESGCI:
https://badges.wes.org/Evidence?i=ebd946...55&type=ca
https://badges.wes.org/Evidence?i=bb3b40...d1&type=ca

From these evaluations, it seems ESGCI is legit. How WES would recognize the equivalency of the DBA is another question as WES normally equates foreign DBAs from Europe as equivalent to masters degrees. But it looks like the institution itself is legit.