My youngest is officially a college student, and stupid crap guidance couselors say..

[clep3705]

I told a mom to make sure that her algebra proficient high schooler take the CLEP College Algebra test so that he could get credit for it. A few months later, she told me that her son did so well on the community college math placement test that he was exempted from college algebra and placed into calculus. I told her if he was that good in algebra, he could have gotten credit for it, not just exempted. I'm still recommending CLEP credit for college algebra because it will cost less than taking another math course or an elective.

For those who start accumulating college credits early, taking the ACT or SAT can be completely avoided in some cases if you know the rules and apply them well. That's because you can be treated as a college transfer student instead of a high school graduate applicant if everything falls into place.

[Prloko]

Awesome advice CLEP3705

[cathgrl]

At the end of my freshman year at a B&M over 30 years ago, the counselor asked me why I had taken Freshman English. "Well, because I have to have it to graduate," I said. "Actually, with your SAT score you would have been exempt." (I'm not sure that that was in the college catalog, but it might have been an unwritten rule.) Since the school had any warm body advising in-coming Freshman, I'm not surprised that I didn't get the best info.

One of the many benefits of this forum is learning from others.

Due to my family's schedule, I had to attend the last scheduled orientation session at my B&M. No spaces were available for ENG 101. When it came time to choose classes, pieces of paper were passed out with our info and ACT scores. There was a note on it that indicated that my ACT in English was high enough that they recommended my trying to take the CLEP. Which I did that fall semester, cold, and passed.

I still had to take the math placement test. I did pretty well on it because I had my old trig book and for fun I did the advanced algebra problems in the back of the book for six weeks. Other classmates didn't fare so well.

[Prloko]

I still had to take the math placement test. I did pretty well on it because I had my old trig book and for fun I did the advanced algebra problems in the back of the book for six weeks. Other classmates didn't fare so well.

You did math for fun??? SICK!!!

Just kidding, I still have an active ALEKs account because I want to relearn math, for fun. :p

[bluebooger]

You did math for fun??? SICK!!!

...

reminds of the scene in Back To the Future 2 (or 3)

Doc Brown is back in the Ol' West and he's depressed because Mad Dog is going to shoot him in a few hours

So Doc Brown is in the bar drinking and getting drunk

he's drunk so he's not thinking about consequences and he's telling people about the future

the old cowboys are making fun of him for claiming to be from the future
and one of them asks
"ok, what do people in the future do for fun?"

Doc Brown answers
"all kinds of things, ...something... something... go running"

Ol Cowboy: (laughing derisively)
"running ?! what the hell kind of fun is that ?

ha ha
I died laughing when I heard that line

[cookderosa]

It just aggravates me that had we been less informed she would have walked away feeling like a failure. And had she taken the advisers word for it there would have been a mad summer full of remedial math only to watch most classes fill and run the risk of not making the grade even after the retake. Fact is that the Kid smoked the college english/comprehension portions and should be lauded for that achievement. This particular school has a huge (and growing) dual enrollment program and even an accelerated on campus high school. They shouldn't have to make up or guess at the rules.

LB: that sounds about right, you cant register till you see an adviser...but then the advice is questionable at best. Sorry you had to take extra courses.

They're not making them up, they're confused.
TECHNICALLY a transfer track requires 100 level test score, you know that - so the exception (she isn't yet registering for a course with that specific prereq) didn't occur to that counselor (or work study- anyone's guess). But look at the bright side, you were with her, you knew the nuances of "if-then" and "if-not-then" so crisis averted....and now he knows (which won't matter if he's a workstudy lol)

[cookderosa]

This is not specific to your daughter's situation because that's more of an advisement issue rather than an issue with remedial courses and placement tests.

We mainly have three options when it comes to dealing with students who aren't college-ready:

1. Don't admit them to academic programs and steer them to vo-tech programs. This is what they do in some European countries.
2. Offer them remedial courses. Many will give up if they can't get through the remedial courses, but that means that they wouldn't have gotten through many of the college-level courses either.
3. Stick them in college-level courses so that they can sink or swim. This is what many for-profit and non-profit, open admissions colleges do often resulting in high dropout rates.

College graduates in many other developed nations are graduating with better math and writing skills. They are increasing their standards while we settle for mediocrity. From my experience, passing English I makes a huge difference. I took community college courses that did not require English I and other courses that did. The reading level of some of the CJ students was so bad that they couldn't even follow the written directions given by the instructor. We had discussion board assignments where some of the students' initial responses weren't even on topic and could barely be understood. This stifles the academic stimulation students should receive from their classmates. The students who could read at least at the high school level were being done a disservice by having their education hampered by students who weren't prepared.

That's not entirely the whole picture. Dual enrollment students have 2 more years before being "college ready" for classes that have 100 level Eng/math pre-reqs. So students can enroll in anything that doesn't have the pre-req. Science, for instance typically has the math 100 requirement, while psych might have the English requirement. On our "list" of dual enrollment options (>100 courses) about half don't have ENG/MATH pre-req requirement- this will vary by state policy, not so much school policy. Kids doing the dual enrollment classes sometimes are already 100 level ready in ENG/MATH so they can choose anything, other kids might still need 11th and 12th grade English/math. No one is "behind" in that case, so to make anyone FEEL behind is uninformed.

[cookderosa]

I told a mom to make sure that her algebra proficient high schooler take the CLEP College Algebra test so that he could get credit for it. A few months later, she told me that her son did so well on the community college math placement test that he was exempted from college algebra and placed into calculus. I told her if he was that good in algebra, he could have gotten credit for it, not just exempted. I'm still recommending CLEP credit for college algebra because it will cost less than taking another math course or an elective.
.

You are absolutely correct, many parents miss the point on this one all the time.

[sanantone]

That's not entirely the whole picture. Dual enrollment students have 2 more years before being "college ready" for classes that have 100 level Eng/math pre-reqs. So students can enroll in anything that doesn't have the pre-req. Science, for instance typically has the math 100 requirement, while psych might have the English requirement. On our "list" of dual enrollment options (>100 courses) about half don't have ENG/MATH pre-req requirement- this will vary by state policy, not so much school policy. Kids doing the dual enrollment classes sometimes are already 100 level ready in ENG/MATH so they can choose anything, other kids might still need 11th and 12th grade English/math. No one is "behind" in that case, so to make anyone FEEL behind is uninformed.

This is what I said. This is not specific to your daughter's situation because that's more of an advisement issue rather than an issue with remedial courses and placement tests. I was not talking about dual enrollment students; I was talking about remedial courses in general related to the article Rebel100 posted. All of the people in my CC online courses were adults. This is easy to infer from introductory posts where people talk about their families and work history. So, yes, they were behind.

[sanantone]

I told a mom to make sure that her algebra proficient high schooler take the CLEP College Algebra test so that he could get credit for it. A few months later, she told me that her son did so well on the community college math placement test that he was exempted from college algebra and placed into calculus. I told her if he was that good in algebra, he could have gotten credit for it, not just exempted. I'm still recommending CLEP credit for college algebra because it will cost less than taking another math course or an elective.

For those who start accumulating college credits early, taking the ACT or SAT can be completely avoided in some cases if you know the rules and apply them well. That's because you can be treated as a college transfer student instead of a high school graduate applicant if everything falls into place.

This is fine if there is a place for the college algebra course. If the lowest level math for the associate's degree is precalculus or higher, for example, then the college algebra test could possibly be a waste unless there is room for it as an elective when transferring to a 4-year school. In this degree plan at a CC, there is no room for a math elective below precalculus.
Program: concentration in Computer Science - Northwest Vista College - Acalog ACMS