ENEB Master Thread

[eLearner]

Ah, Thorne beat me to it. There is a little more, some is in the old mega thread, some in emails we've discussed in the past here and on degreeinfo, but I think the gist has been posted.

Something I found interesting is that one of the Formacion schools has it setup where you can get transcripts directly from the Universities for 75 euros. The school they told me one could get a transcript from was San Jorge University. I'll check and see if Isabel participates with their transcript program. If so, it will be one of the first exceptions with Isabel.

[innen_oda]

You were one of the many early detractors speaking with certainty that the program would never get any favorable evaluations.

Given that I rarely speak in certainties, this sounds quite unlike me. I think listing this 'degree' alongside worthwhile qualifications will take away from the overall quality of an candidate. I also think ENEB is ethically questionable. But I doubt I'd make promises about the practices of foreign evaluators.

Regardless, it's great to hear American evaluators have evaluated it as equivalent to a 'regular' Masters degree! Here I had been thinking there was all this debate over which evaluator was best to go with, since some evaluated it as a pseudo-bachelor, others as a grad cert, etc etc. But it sounds like that's resolved, and we no longer need to discuss. Great! The science is settled.

Any hiring manager that has gone that far without having made a determination on all of a candidate's qualifications sucks as a hiring manager and is used to wasting his/her own time with poor vetting skills.

Nope. Checking quals is usually a final stage action. Doing it any earlier (before you've selected your final preferred candidate) would mean having to check the quals of multiple candidates, rather than just your best candidate.

Unfortunately, SOMETHING has to come last when hiring someone, and there will be times when an applicant looks perfect for most of the process, only to fall at the final hurdle. It happens, and is (sadly) unavoidable. If no candidate ever fell at a final hurdle . . . we wouldn't bother with the hurdle.


But ignore all of that. I've realised your post has much wisdom, and you are correct that absolutely no harm can come from following ENEB's advice. I fully encourage you to list your ENEB degree as a 'Isabel I Masters in (specialisation)', avoid mentioning anything about ENEB or titulo propio, and apply far and wide. You deserve to put this ENEB - no, Isabel I - true and honest Masters-level qualification on your CV. Nothing bad will ever come of it.

[arad]

I contacted UI1 and asked if I can put UI1 instead of ENEB on the CV. Their response:

La Universidad Isabel I certifica los títulos propios que ENEB imparte. Eso no los convierte en títulos oficiales si no que la Universidad certifica que todos sus contenidos tienen la competencias adecuadas respecto a la titulación.
Si lo quieres incluir en tu CV tiene que incluir impartido por ENEB y certificado por la Universidad Isabel I.

Google Translation:

The Isabel I University certifies the own degrees that ENEB imparts. That does not make them official titles but the University certifies that all its contents have the appropriate competencies regarding the degree.

If you want to include it in your CV, it has to include taught by ENEB and certified by the Isabel I University.


I also asked ENEB a few questions:

Why do some people write that they received a degree from Universidal Isabel in their Resume even though they took the program at ENEB?
It depends on each person. As "Universidad" carries the title of 'university', some students prefer to have it like that on their CV, instead of ENEB, that only carries 'business school' in its title.


Has UI1 developed any of the curriculum?
Yes, the curriculum was designed in accordance with Universidade Isalbel I.

is it wrong to write UI1 on the Resume?
No, not necessarily, as stated in answer 1.


Are you looking to get another type of accreditation for your programs (e.g. ACBSP, IACBE, CHEA, IQA, EDUQUA and CMI) ?
Not at the moment, but we are constantly looking for options that we can offer our students.


I find their second answer a bit ambiguous. "designed in accordance" does not mean "designed by". It simply means that UI1 advised ENEB how many topics they need to get certain ECTS.

[asianphd]

When we study for an official university, we rewarded by designation like BA, MA.

As far as I know, ENEB does not grant designation. I don't think we can put it in our name after we completed ENEB.

Because it does not grant the designation, I put them on my CV as Master's Certificate on .... by... No problem so far.

[Kab]

I think that the critic to all the ENEB thematic is overblown.
Peace to everybody.

[innen_oda]

Lots of words

I agree. If people want to spend their time to take this very very valid ENEB - Isabel I Master's degree and put it on their CV, we should encourage them. This is the value and beauty of the free market.

It really bothers me too when people question things, because the true value of a forum like this is to be enthusiastic cheerleaders, and not critique or criticise.

And anyway, all the criticism has indeed been solely because it's really cheap. Not one substantive concern otherwise has been raised, in stark contrast to the wealth of thoughtful and considered positive commentary provided by not-at-all credulous commenters.

ENEB and Isabel I Universidad are offering a Master's degree which is definitely not a scam, and ENEB is definitely not a degree mill. Sign up today!

[cacoleman1983]

Lots of words

I agree. If people want to spend their time to take this very very valid ENEB - Isabel I Master's degree and put it on their CV, we should encourage them. This is the value and beauty of the free market.

It really bothers me too when people question things, because the true value of a forum like this is to be enthusiastic cheerleaders, and not critique or criticise.

And anyway, all the criticism has indeed been solely because it's really cheap. Not one substantive concern otherwise has been raised, in stark contrast to the wealth of thoughtful and considered positive commentary provided by not-at-all credulous commenters.

ENEB and Isabel I Universidad are offering a Master's degree which is definitely not a scam, and ENEB is definitely not a degree mill. Sign up today!

Considering that ENEB has received positive foreign evaluations, I would highly recommend them just for that reason.   The best evaluation one has received or recommended is a Graduate Certificate with 30 US graduate credit hours.  Some US universities will accept this as a Masters equivalent into their Doctorate programs despite the fact that ENEB Masters degree programs certified as a propio are not designed for entrance into Doctorate programs in Spain.

[eLearner]

Ah, Thorne beat me to it. There is a little more, some is in the old mega thread, some in emails we've discussed in the past here and on degreeinfo, but I think the gist has been posted.

Something I found interesting is that one of the Formacion schools has it setup where you can get transcripts directly from the Universities for 75 euros. The school they told me one could get a transcript from was San Jorge University. I'll check and see if Isabel participates with their transcript program. If so, it will be one of the first exceptions with Isabel.

Got my answer. Nope. Isabel doesn't participate. Diploma only.

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Given that I rarely speak in certainties

Given that I rarely speak in certainties, this sounds quite unlike me. I think listing this 'degree' alongside worthwhile qualifications will take away from the overall quality of an candidate. I also think ENEB is ethically questionable. But I doubt I'd make promises about the practices of foreign evaluators.

Well, I'll put it a different way: you didn't speak about it with any uncertainty. If you see ENEB as "ethically questionable" (lol, what?) then you must view all Spanish propios that way since ENEB isn't doing anything different from the norm there.

Regardless, it's great to hear American evaluators have evaluated it as equivalent to a 'regular' Masters degree! Here I had been thinking there was all this debate over which evaluator was best to go with, since some evaluated it as a pseudo-bachelor, others as a grad cert, etc etc. But it sounds like that's resolved, and we no longer need to discuss. Great! The science is settled.

LOL! Why are you doing this? You know that the evaluations have gone: U.S. RA Bachelor's, U.S. RA Graduate Diploma, U.S. Non-accredited Master's. None of that is a secret, and none of those outcomes are anything but good. innen_oda, you fought a good fight, but you lost. It's time to let go and let God 

Nope. Checking quals is usually a final stage action. Doing it any earlier (before you've selected your final preferred candidate) would mean having to check the quals of multiple candidates, rather than just your best candidate.


Unfortunately, SOMETHING has to come last when hiring someone, and there will be times when an applicant looks perfect for most of the process, only to fall at the final hurdle. It happens, and is (sadly) unavoidable. If no candidate ever fell at a final hurdle . . . we wouldn't bother with the hurdle.

I'm aware that the final step is usually a background check, but once upon a time in the early 2000's I did that job, and when I reached the stage of narrowing down the few candidates I wanted to have interviewed I did my own preliminary checks doing what most do today: an internet search. It took very little time. On a number of occasions I caught people with degrees from Axact and Axact-like outfits, people with very off-color online posts on Facebook, Myspace, and so on, and when I did those people got cut. That saved me a ton of time not having to have them interviewed and some of the expense of us doing the full background check. I'm sure that's not how most companies do it, but that's how I did it.

But ignore all of that. I've realised your post has much wisdom, and you are correct that absolutely no harm can come from following ENEB's advice. I fully encourage you to list your ENEB degree as a 'Isabel I Masters in (specialisation)', avoid mentioning anything about ENEB or titulo propio, and apply far and wide. You deserve to put this ENEB - no, Isabel I - true and honest Masters-level qualification on your CV. Nothing bad will ever come of it.

LOL! Well, I don't have an ENEB or Isabel degree or have any plans to get one, but given that the Isabel diploma is an Isabel diploma with all of the ID, insignia, signature, and verification through Isabel, I'm fairly certain that listing it as what it is and it being able to get verified as such when one checks would make it impossible for anything bad to come of it. But you're here for doom so I get the angle. Just remember, you signaled doom for this all before a number of times and it didn't happen. There was once a story with a similar theme written by Aesop, and in some English translations the protagonist was eaten...

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When we study for an official university, we rewarded by designation like BA, MA.

As far as I know, ENEB does not grant designation.  I don't think we can put it in our name after we completed ENEB.

Because it does not grant the designation, I put them on my CV as Master's Certificate on .... by...  No problem so far.

That's way off. In the United States for instance, the MBA is neither designated as an Arts or Sciences degree and that doesn't make it a Master's certificate.

If a person wants an Arts or Sciences designation in this example (not that it even matters to be honest), they'll have to get a Master of Science in Business Administration which interestingly enough is not looked at as prestigious as the MBA despite the degrees being essentially identical in scope and purpose. There are many other examples of degrees that don't carry Arts and Sciences designation in the U.S. (Master of Professional Studies is another, various Doctorates and so on) but the main thing that has to be understood is that those Arts and Sciences designations are just not used in many parts of the world and Spain is one of them. You're applying American education customs to the Spanish system and downgrading your own credential, not in a purposeful way to be dishonest at least, but still.

Designations/post-nominals are built into all degrees however, and Arts and Sciences aren't the only ones that exist. For example, if you finished ENEB's Master in Project Management, you have an MPM. If you finished Georgetown University's Master of Professional Studies, you have an MPS. Now, will these designations be well-known to the average person? No, but the average person doesn't know a lot of things, that doesn't make them any less legitimate.

[cacoleman1983]

One thing I have found out is that while these credits from ENEB may not transfer or very few of the hours are accepted, some schools will still recognize a Master Propio evaluated as a graduate certificate with 30 hours in order to enter a Doctorate program. University of Arkansas Fayetteville is one of those schools. Here is a link to their Doctor of Education program. https://adll.uark.edu/doctoral-degrees/a...rocess.php

Notice the line: A master's degree or approved equivalent (minimally, 30 hours of post-baccalaureate graduate work completed).

There are many other universities with similar stances.

[asianphd]

When we study for an official university, we rewarded by designation like BA, MA.

As far as I know, ENEB does not grant designation.  I don't think we can put it in our name after we completed ENEB.

Because it does not grant the designation, I put them on my CV as Master's Certificate on .... by...  No problem so far.

That's way off. In the United States for instance, the MBA is neither designated as an Arts or Sciences degree and that doesn't make it a Master's certificate.

If a person wants an Arts or Sciences designation in this example (not that it even matters to be honest), they'll have to get a Master of Science in Business Administration which interestingly enough is not looked at as prestigious as the MBA despite the degrees being essentially identical in scope and purpose. There are many other examples of degrees that don't carry Arts and Sciences designation in the U.S. (Master of Professional Studies is another, various Doctorates and so on) but the main thing that has to be understood is that those Arts and Sciences designations are just not used in many parts of the world and Spain is one of them. You're applying American education customs to the Spanish system and downgrading your own credential, not in a purposeful way to be dishonest at least, but still.

Designations/post-nominals are built into all degrees however, and Arts and Sciences aren't the only ones that exist. For example, if you finished ENEB's Master in Project Management, you have an MPM. If you finished Georgetown University's Master of Professional Studies, you have an MPS. Now, will these designations be well-known to the average person? No, but the average person doesn't know a lot of things, that doesn't make them any less legitimate.

Thank you for your responses. I am not saying in US terms but in Anglo-Saxons perspective. For example, in my country, it is illegal to use post-nominal that are not legally granted by the university itself. You said you have MPM. But does the university said so? 

Because in many territories (including my country), the usage of post-nominal is regulated. For example, in the UK you can only write what the university is legally to do so. https://www.lboro.ac.uk/students/graduat...l-letters/ 
More here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_degree