ENEB Master Thread

[rachel83az]

I would personally list it as Isabel I and not ENEB. Isabel I is at least a real university. Listing ENEB would kinda be like getting a Georgia Tech Master's through edX and then listing edX on your resume.

[Flelm]

Now that I signed up for it, I'll have to decide what I'm going to do

I signed up for the combo MBA / Masters in Project Management. Personally, I would probably not list the MBA at all, and hope to transfer/complete that at a US school.

Code:

EDUCATION

Thomas Edison State University, Trenton, NJ
2016 - 2021
B.S. Business Administration (Operations Management Concentration)

ENEB Business School, Barcelona, Spain
2021 - 2023
Master Titulo Propio in Project Management (comparable to graduate certificate)

I get the argument for listing Isabel I, but I don't think I can justify that to myself without putting way too long an explanation, which will turn people off anyway.

Code:

ENEB Business School (certified by Isabel I), Barcelona, Spain
2021-2023
MBA Titulo Propio
Master Titulo Propio in Project Management

This is how I would do it, but I'm not saying it's the only right way to do it.

EDIT: on second thought, I might instead add it to my certifications / other education section. Lots to think about.

[Thorne]

Master of Business Administration, Isabel I University

Simple enough. I agree with Rachel, no point listing EdX if the degree came from Georgia Tech or Coursera if the degree is from Lafayette

[jsd]

Not sure I follow this logic, but I've been away from this for so long that maybe I'm not up to speed, so correct me if i'm wrong.

In the case of EdX/GT, the lecture videos used to be hosted on the EdX platform, but all work and interaction was completed on GT's platform, with GT professors, following GT curriculum. EdX is not creating content nor issuing any degrees or credentials. With ENEB, everything is done through ENEB directly with no interaction with Isabel I faculty or course content. Isabel I is just vouching for the degree that ENEB grants, no?

Or is Isabel I granting their own degree and transcripts on top ENEB? If so, the Isabel I transcripts are probably much more likely to get a more favorable review by the foreign degree evaluators, why are we even bothering having ENEB evaluated? Just keep it under Isabel I, and list it as Isabel I on a resume as stated above.

But if Isabel I is only acting as a partner that is endorsing the ENEB degree, it seems misleading to say Isabel I is the university. And with all the insistence that ENEB is legit, it seems odd to try to conceal the source.

But if Isabel I is actually granting their own degree/transcripts for this program, I am a lot more interested and will have to start reading through all this again

[rachel83az]

Isabel I is not granting their own transcripts, no.

[innen_oda]

Code:

EDUCATION

Thomas Edison State University, Trenton, NJ
2016 - 2021
B.S. Business Administration (Operations Management Concentration)

ENEB Business School, Barcelona, Spain
2021 - 2023
Master Titulo Propio in Project Management (comparable to graduate certificate)

Unsolicited advice, if this is actually how you're listing stuff on your CV:
- get rid of the word 'concentration'. Yes, technically there's a difference between a major and a concentration, but it's not important enough to distinguish here.
- take out the 'comparable to . . . ' stuff. Titulo Propio Master (in whatever)' is sufficient. You can explain the details when (if) asked.
- use the same structure for describing majors/specialisations/concentrations across all degree levels. So if your format for the undergrad is 'BA (English)', don't list post-grad as 'Masters in Arts - Journalism'. I've seen it happen again and again, and while it's not a deal-breaker, it's a sign of poor attention to detail and lack of consistency.
- white space is your friend, and will make your hiring manager happy. I'm not sure of the value of listing the location of your universities, although I note it is a common preference for applicants. I find it distracting, and it doesn't add much to shortlisting decisions.

As a test for a nice-looking CV, have a friend (or anyone who does not know your quals) view your CV for 10 seconds (max). Take your CV away from them. If they can't at least repeat your full name, last work role/position, and the focus of your tertiary studies, you have either too much crap on your CV, or it's not organised well. Or both.
If you find they can remember other stuff (e.g. the years you attended uni, but not what you studied there), a reshuffling and reorgnising is needed. The 'what' is always more important than the 'when', and should be ordered similarly.

I won't comment on the merits of those electing to list Isabel I (and not ENEB Business School), apart from noting which name people choose when referring to the degree on this board (and others). Hint: it isn't Isabel I.

[eLearner]

The attempt to over-explain a credential in a well-meaning act is going to backfire. No need to over-complicate this, it won't help you.

Putting Titulo Propio is accurate but unnecessary and will draw questions that could've been avoided. Americans don't know what that is, it's a foreign term that has no use in the American context and serves no purpose to you by using it. Stick with Master's because that's what it is and because that's what's written on the documents.

Write it down as a grad cert and then you're not telling the truth unless you have an evaluation to back that up, but then you have to ask yourself why you would downgrade your credential either way? Whether or not an evaluator evaluates it as a Master's or not, it's still a Master's, what's written on your diploma doesn't change because an evaluator's opinion differs. Besides, the people in Spain aren't trying to do all of these maneuvers with the wording or calling it a different title than Master, they just write it down as it's written on the docs. That should tell us all we need to know.

Writing it as ENEB-only is fair because you receive an ENEB degree. Writing it as Isabel-only is fair because you receive an Isabel signed and stamped degree with Isabel's seal, and code data for Isabel verification. Writing it as a combination of both is fair. Writing it as a Master's is fair because that's what's written on the documents. Everything else may be well-meaning but it's a lie, and imagine having to explain to an employer or potential employer that your grad cert is actually a Master's after they verify it? Imagine how crazy you will look because of how weird the lie is? A potential employer probably won't hire you after that. A current employer may look at you suspiciously after that.

Makes no sense. Save yourself the trouble. Stick to the script.

[ss20ts]

Bringing up Coursera and edX has left me confused. I'm working on a certificate on Coursera from Columbia University right now. The courses are on Coursera not Columbia's website. I'm also going to be completing a certificate on edX from RIT which again is on edX not RIT's website. So would leave Coursera and edX off when listing the certificates and just list Columbia and RIT? Man this stuff is so complicated these days!

[innen_oda]

Putting Titulo Propio is accurate but unnecessary and will draw questions that could've been avoided. Americans don't know what that is, it's a foreign term that has no use in the American context and serves no purpose to you by using it. Stick with Master's because that's what it is and because that's what's written on the documents.

Hard disagree, because it's not the same as a 'regular' masters and obfuscating this fact crosses the line between painting yourself in the best light, and active deception. A remarkable number of positions require specific qualifications, which may not be divulged to you as an applicant.
This is one place where, if I as your friendly hiring manager had questions (and you were otherwise perfect to bring in for interview) and I didn't know what this titulo propio was, I'd simply google it and then decide if such a degree would be a problem for that position. (It may or may not be, depending on a lot of things, few of which you can predict from the outset.) I am more likely to google unfamiliar uni names, and given the first page results associated with this 'degree', this area is probably where you should be worrying.

Frankly, if you've arrived at the final stage of the hiring process and your hiring manager discovers you've wasted their time, you won't get a chance to argue your case. Your hiring manager is not your mother, and the idea that you'll 'have to explain' is laughable. No hiring manager is going to waste their time following up. You'll get the standard 'thanks for interviewing, but we've decided to go in another direction' email (leaving you to wonder where it all went wrong - you'll likely never even know it was the ENEB degree which caused it) and be put on a list of people to absolutely never consider ever. If your (ex-)hiring manager is really PO'd or stressed after all this, you'll probably even be included in the Friday evening rant at the pub. And when you apply somewhere else next week, no doubt there'll be a text, one hiring manager to another: 'hey, they've applied here too. Lol.'


Also, comments like 'the people in Spain' are a bit unpleasant and a simplistic way to regard an entire nation (which is made up of many individuals). 'The people in America' need to stop doing this.

[Thorne]

The attempt to over-explain a credential in a well-meaning act is going to backfire. No need to over-complicate this, it won't help you.

Adding to this, calling it a Titulo Propio isn't really a thing for these degrees anyway. The transcripts, diplomas, and UI's verification system say no such thing as "Titulo Propio," and even if they did that just means "University Degree."

The document says "Master of [Area of Study]" and is issued by a university, so writing it as "University Master of Business Administration from Universidad Isabel I" is redundant and confusing.

Not sure I follow this logic, but I've been away from this for so long that maybe I'm not up to speed, so correct me if i'm wrong.

In the case of EdX/GT, the lecture videos used to be hosted on the EdX platform, but all work and interaction was completed on GT's platform, with GT professors, following GT curriculum. EdX is not creating content nor issuing any degrees or credentials.  With ENEB, everything is done through ENEB directly with no interaction with Isabel I faculty or course content. Isabel I is just vouching for the degree that ENEB grants, no?

Or is Isabel I granting their own degree and transcripts on top ENEB? If so, the Isabel I transcripts are probably much more likely to get a more favorable review by the foreign degree evaluators, why are we even bothering having ENEB evaluated? Just keep it under Isabel I, and list it as Isabel I on a resume as stated above.

But if Isabel I is only acting as a partner that is endorsing the ENEB degree, it seems misleading to say Isabel I is the university. And with all the insistence that ENEB is legit, it seems odd to try to conceal the source.

But if Isabel I is actually granting their own degree/transcripts for this program, I am a lot more interested and will have to start reading through all this again

I think it's disingenuous to say that there is no course content from Isabel. At the very least, we know from the articulation agreement between ENEB and UI1 (a document that can be found on the ENEB website) that Isabel approved the course content and the degree program. They also issue their own full degree that can be verified on their website in addition to ENEB's degree. They do not, however, issue transcripts

That said, it's more like Coursera than EdX. With Coursera specializations and degrees, you do the work on Coursera's platform with a combination of pre-recorded lectures approved or created by the school and some interaction with professors from the university. ENEB skews a little farther away from having direct interaction with UI1 professors, but still involves curriculum that is reviewed and approved by UI1. It also seems likely that Isabel had some direct say in the development of this curriculum since it appears in a remarkably similar, or even identical, fashion in several of UI1's other partner institutions (others like ENEB).

Plus, we already see this happening with the many programs people on this forum have already completed. If you were an OG at TESU and only did the capstone with them, it's possible that TESU just basically vouches for all the Straighterline, Study.com, Saylor, etc credits and stamps their seal of approval on your degree saying, "Yup, we issued it!" 

As a counterpoint, do you note on your CV that you only did two classes at TESU to complete your BA Psych? Do you consider that to be a legit TESU degree even though you had very limited interaction with TESU, their faculty, or their curriculum? You absolutely should, but the line of thinking that leads to it being disingenuous to claim that a degree from a school came from that school also leads to wondering whether a degree based solely on transfer credit with one class should also fall under the same umbrella.

Bringing up Coursera and edX has left me confused. I'm working on a certificate on Coursera from Columbia University right now. The courses are on Coursera not Columbia's website. I'm also going to be completing a certificate on edX from RIT which again is on edX not RIT's website. So would leave Coursera and edX off when listing the certificates and just list Columbia and RIT? Man this stuff is so complicated these days!

I don't know, maybe you should just for the sake of disclosing all the information. I, for one, am going to start listing my WGU degree as:

Bachelor of Science in Information Technology - Security from Western Governors University, awarded as a result of 35 credits completed at the institution, 53 credits completed at [Community College], 6 credits approved by ACE, and my formerly-but-not-presently-held CCNP and CCNA Security certifications evaluated as equivalent to 29 credits by the institution.

That's the only way to handle this, clearly /s