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% High Meaning is the statistic for the percentage of people with the degree who report that their job is meaningful.
https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-.../bachelors
https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-.../associate
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Life isn't all about money or ROI for every. Good thing or we wouldn't have teachers or bus drivers.
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08-14-2021, 05:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2021, 05:38 PM by sanantone.)
(08-14-2021, 05:16 PM)ss20ts Wrote: Life isn't all about money or ROI for every. Good thing or we wouldn't have teachers or bus drivers.
I think that's why Payscale started collecting data on meaningfulness, but this is their college research, so the data won't be applicable to occupations that typically don't require a degree.
https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-...ful-majors
ROI doesn't just apply to your choice in major; it applies to your choice in school. You can spend $75k getting an education degree at one school or spend $25k getting an education degree at another school and have the same salary potential at either school.
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08-15-2021, 11:09 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2021, 11:16 AM by sanantone.)
I'm thinking back to when I actually was a city bus driver. I've done many jobs, and there wasn't a group that talked more about money than city bus drivers. It was the most aggressive union I had witnessed, and they fought for a $5 per hour pay raise. Just because a job doesn't require a degree doesn't mean that it's a passion job or that the workers don't care about money. One of the jobs that always has a severe shortage is part-time school bus driving. Only retirees and stay-at-home parents could afford to only work 25 hours per week in a split shift that made it nearly impossible to hold a second job.
Want to know why there's a big teacher shortage? It's money. Many people who went through the trouble of becoming certified teachers leave because of money, and these are jobs that pay more than $50k in many regions. Why have there been teacher strikes? It's about money.
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08-15-2021, 11:33 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2021, 11:42 AM by Pats20.)
Roi isn’t only measured monetarily. Also The teacher shortage isn’t because of money. Not all worker shortages are because of money. Take software engineers Or nurses. I’m not even Convinced that there is a teacher shortage.
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08-15-2021, 11:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2021, 12:47 PM by ss20ts.)
(08-15-2021, 11:33 AM)Pats20 Wrote: Roi isn’t just measured monetarily. Also The teacher shortage isn’t because of money.
Where I live teachers start at almost $60K a year. It's not the salary driving them out. I know several teachers who were pushed out by the administration. Some made too much because they were there for so long. Others didn't agree with the administration and were vocal about it. Some struggled with parental issues - usually the lack of involvement and the way the parents treat the teachers. They're teachers not parents. Many people don't seem to understand that.
In my state, students have a legal right to an education. It is almost impossible to remove a student from the school. I personally know an art teacher who had a knife pulled on her by a student. The student was suspended and then came right back and did it again. She ended up resigning because her life was in danger and nothing could be done. After a few more of these incidents, he was home schooled by tutors paid for by taxpayers. The next year he was back in school doing it all over again. He was finally arrested as a teenager and in juvie. That's how he was removed from the school. By then, the art teacher was long gone. Who knows how many other teachers he drove away. Sadly, this isn't the only example in that school. This all started when he was in 6th grade and went on for years. No amount of money is worth that kind of treatment!
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08-15-2021, 11:50 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2021, 11:53 AM by Pats20.)
Most teachers I know love it. That’s why many work until their 70.
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08-16-2021, 12:45 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2021, 12:47 PM by sanantone.)
(08-15-2021, 11:33 AM)Pats20 Wrote: Roi isn’t only measured monetarily. Also The teacher shortage isn’t because of money. Not all worker shortages are because of money. Take software engineers Or nurses. I’m not even Convinced that there is a teacher shortage.
There is a teacher shortage. In 2019, the estimated teacher shortage was 100k. Even when I was in high school 17 years ago, they couldn't find enough math and science teachers. My pre-calculus and geometry teacher had a degree in biology; he said that he was pretty much voluntold to teach math, and he was miserable. Those were the worst math classes I had ever taken. My physics teacher had a degree in microbiology, and you could tell she was a bit lost. Some school districts have started temporarily hiring people with no teacher training, not even alternative teacher certification training.
While some districts pay well, others do not. When I moved to Austin, they were starting teachers at $38k while San Antonio districts were starting teachers at $50k or $55k. Considering that Austin is the most expensive big city in Texas, I wouldn't apply for Austin teacher openings. I don't think they cared because they were shutting down schools anyway. Families were fleeing the high housing costs.
The reason why there's a shortage of software engineers is because the career requires a high aptitude. It's estimated that the average software engineer has an IQ over 110. While it's possible to become one with a lower IQ, it'd be quite difficult. The dropout rates for STEM majors are high because American high school students do not have strong mathematics preparation.
As for the nursing shortage, the shortage in California that was talked about during the 2007 recession turned out to not be real. The problem was that California's hospitals didn't want to hire inexperienced nurses. The Great Recession saw a huge increase in nursing school applicants and enrollees. Due to there being a limited number of seats in nursing programs, many applicants were waitlisted. In 2020, over 80,000 qualified nursing school applicants were turned away due to a shortage of nurse educators.
I certainly do believe a lot of teachers leave the profession because of stress. Many have quit this past year because their state governments haven't cared about their safety. But, when it comes to attracting people to go through teacher certification programs in the first place, the salaries are not enticing when one can make more as an accountant or some other profession that only requires a bachelor's degree. Let's not forget the 2018 teacher walkouts over pay and benefits. Over 100k teachers walked out that year.
Teacher Walkouts: A State By State Guide : NPR Ed : NPR
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(08-16-2021, 12:45 PM)sanantone Wrote: Some school districts have started temporarily hiring people with no teacher training, not even alternative teacher certification training.
It's funny that you say that... I actually just began work as a remote, part-time teacher because of that, despite not having my undergrad yet(expected soon, this year).
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08-16-2021, 05:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2021, 06:12 PM by Pats20.)
Like I said roi isn’t only measured monetarily. Teachers enjoy state benefits and pensions along with weekends, holidays, and summers off, and let’s not forget tenure. That’s the trade off.
Also if their is such a teacher shortage why are there so many adjunct professors working for peanuts with no benefits and substitute teachers ? You would think they would be filling these full time positions and the shortage would be with the subs and adjuncts.
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