Associates in Computer ... something?

[Ideas]

Perhaps he should get the BOG AAS degree along the way. He could get one with a concentration in CIS or similar. The BOG AAS is so cheap and someone can do it cheaply if they use ALEKS, Shmoop, Study.com scholarship, Davar during this June sale, etc.

[SolarKat]

After going through a lot of job ads, employers seem to mostly want experience with C++. Java, C, and C# were some of the other languages I saw. TESU's BSAST requires C++ and software engineering along with several other courses that could be used in their CS program. When the job ads listed a preferred or required major, I saw computer science listed. I think a degree in computer science or an IT program that focuses more on software than hardware would be most appropriate, but the CS program will lay a better foundation. Another option would be WGU's software development program, but you would need to learn more programming languages on the side.

It depends on what you're competing against in the workforce, though. The TESU CS degree only includes 7 actual "computer" classes (and that's the bachelors!). The free electives can be anything (and most people will go easy/cheap/fast). Compare this with any other CS program:

University of Wyoming (looks like 18 classes in computers, with additional math classes)
Texas A&M (also looks like about 18 classes, with additional math classes)
Grantham (requires 14 computer classes, plus math)
WGU (requires 20 computer classes, this is a Software Development degree, not pure CS)

So if a student does what is asked of them with TESU, without adding in extra CS & math within their gen-eds/free electives, and absent a significant portfolio/experience-based resume, they are completely hamstrung when competing against practically *any* other CS (and many IT) programs. Yes, they can check off the "CS degree" on the application, but in transcript comparison they'll lose, and at an interview, they just will not have the same depth/breadth of knowledge as graduates of practically any other CS program. Both the math and the CS are just too light.

Don't get me wrong, I think TESU has a lot of strong points. But as a CS option for a young student, I think there are much better ways to spend time/money.

[Ideas]

Yes, they can check off the "CS degree" on the application, but in transcript comparison they'll lose, and at an interview, they just will not have the same depth/breadth of knowledge as graduates of practically any other CS program.

I am curious how often they look at the specific courses that were taken by the applicant.

Edit: Or how often they look at the general degree program requirements, like you did, and see that the one applicant needed 14 computer classes and the other needed 18 computer classes.

I know they often test knowledge in an interview, like you said.

Also, some of us have no grade for many/most/all courses! I feel that some employers and grad schools would be initially surprised by that.

[sanantone]

It depends on what you're competing against in the workforce, though. The TESU CS degree only includes 7 actual "computer" classes (and that's the bachelors!). The free electives can be anything (and most people will go easy/cheap/fast). Compare this with any other CS program:

University of Wyoming (looks like 18 classes in computers, with additional math classes)
Texas A&M (also looks like about 18 classes, with additional math classes)
Grantham (requires 14 computer classes, plus math)
WGU (requires 20 computer classes, this is a Software Development degree, not pure CS)

So if a student does what is asked of them with TESU, without adding in extra CS & math within their gen-eds/free electives, and absent a significant portfolio/experience-based resume, they are completely hamstrung when competing against practically *any* other CS (and many IT) programs. Yes, they can check off the "CS degree" on the application, but in transcript comparison they'll lose, and at an interview, they just will not have the same depth/breadth of knowledge as graduates of practically any other CS program. Both the math and the CS are just too light.

Don't get me wrong, I think TESU has a lot of strong points. But as a CS option for a young student, I think there are much better ways to spend time/money.

All of TESU's BA degrees are heavy on gen ed and free electives, but I'm more concerned about relevance than quantity. Computer classes is a very broad term. If you want to program or work in computer science but most of your courses are about information systems or html and css, then it doesn't matter how many computer classes there are. You can't discount the importance of math. CS is applied math.

[sanantone]

I am curious how often they look at the specific courses that were taken by the applicant.

Edit: Or how often they look at the general degree program requirements, like you did, and see that the one applicant needed 14 computer classes and the other needed 18 computer classes.

I know they often test knowledge in an interview, like you said.

Also, some of us have no grade for many/most/all courses! I feel that some employers and grad schools would be initially surprised by that.

Employers aren't going to compare courses for every CS applicant. They know that all CS programs cover the basics. Transcript reviews are usually done either when multiple degrees are acceptable but may not have all the desired courses or when someone with an unrelated or semi-related degree applies.

For example, I came across a lab job that wanted a degree related to biology or chemistry, but the applicant needed 3 credits each in genetics, microbiology, and biochemistry. These at required in biology programs, but not chemistry programs.

[SolarKat]

All of TESU's BA degrees are heavy on gen ed and free electives, but I'm more concerned about relevance than quantity. Computer classes is a very broad term. If you want to program or work in computer science but most of your courses are about information systems or html and css, then it doesn't matter how many computer classes there are. You can't discount the importance of math. CS is applied math.

Those degree plans aren't general. They're very specific. Eg, Wyoming...these are all *required*:
Intro to Programming
CS I
CS II
Computer Organization
Discrete Structures
Software Design
Algorithms & Data Structures
Senior Design 1
Senior Design II
Functional Programming
Theory: Foundations or Computing choice
OS
Parallel processing or Compilers choice
Database or Networking choice
Plus a *minimum* of 4UL computer science electives.

If a students wants more IT/IS/Web design, etc, those wind up in free electives. Compare this to TESU:
Required:
- Intro to CS
- Data Structures
5 Electives, anything from:
AI
Assembly Language
Programming
Compilers
Architecture (how is this not required?! It *is* required for the undergrad CS certificate, go figure)
Algorithms
CIS
...etc...full list here.

(And the TESU ASNSM in CS only requires *four* computer classes...)

You're totally right about the math, too. Particularly if they're going on to graduate study, or plan to apply their CS in another field, like engineering. Any undergrad CS student planning grad school or interdisciplinary work involving math/sci/eng should determine early on what might be required for math, so they can fit it into the electives.

ETA - OP, this reminded me. If your son isn't really sure about pure CS, he can take a look at Saylor's CS classes. These are mostly NON-credit. (A few, like Software Engineering, can be taken for credit for only the cost of the proctored final, $25.) However, it's a free peek at what the full, for-credit classes look like at university, in case he wants to try the for-credit options at the college he chooses. It might help him decide what he wants to learn.

[davewill]

OK, knowing that he's 22 and assuming he truly wants to be a software developer, I would recommend that he bite the bullet and do a traditional route. In-state public university, major in CS or CE (or EE if that's his thing). If there's a city in his state where tech is especially heavy, he should consider going to school there. Talented and hard-working students in these majors can generally find paid internships, so he doesn't have to feel like he's burying himself for 4 years. The networking opportunities are invaluable as well, those can turn into job and business opportunities. He can start in community college if he has to, but if he can manage to go directly to university, that would be better from an internship and employment point of view.

At 22, he can still fit into the environment with the advantage of being a little more mature than his classmates. This time will not come again.

[SolarKat]

Employers aren't going to compare courses for every CS applicant. They know that all CS programs cover the basics. Transcript reviews are usually done either when multiple degrees are acceptable but may not have all the desired courses or when someone with an unrelated or semi-related degree applies.

For example, I came across a lab job that wanted a degree related to biology or chemistry, but the applicant needed 3 credits each in genetics, microbiology, and biochemistry. These at required in biology programs, but not chemistry programs.

At interview, they're going to be asked CS questions. At least here in Boston they are. I would suggest that any hiring person is going to see "BA CS" as very unusual among the pile of BSs, and look more closely at transcripts. And when they get to interview, if they haven't even *seen* most of the CS core classes (vs. the Wyoming curriculum), their Github is empty, they don't have a clue what a core dump is, or ARM vs x86 processor architectures, or the necessary OS conditions for deadlock (all common entry-level CS grad questions, at least around Boston)...then a) they're unlikely to be competitive against kids with full CS degrees who did take compilers, architecture, and OSs; and b) they've wasted some serious cash @ TESU for a not-very-CSy CS degree.

[sanantone]

Those degree plans aren't general. They're very specific. Eg, Wyoming...these are all *required*:
Intro to Programming
CS I
CS II
Computer Organization
Discrete Structures
Software Design
Algorithms & Data Structures
Senior Design 1
Senior Design II
Functional Programming
Theory: Foundations or Computing choice
OS
Parallel processing or Compilers choice
Database or Networking choice
Plus a *minimum* of 4UL computer science electives.

If a students wants more IT/IS/Web design, etc, those wind up in free electives. Compare this to TESU:
Required:
- Intro to CS
- Data Structures
5 Electives, anything from:
AI
Assembly Language
Programming
Compilers
Architecture (how is this not required?! It *is* required for the undergrad CS certificate, go figure)
Algorithms
CIS
...etc...full list here.

(And the TESU ASNSM in CS only requires *four* computer classes...)

You're totally right about the math, too. Particularly if they're going on to graduate study, or plan to apply their CS in another field, like engineering. Any undergrad CS student planning grad school or interdisciplinary work involving math/sci/eng should determine early on what might be required for math, so they can fit it into the electives.

ETA - OP, this reminded me. If your son isn't really sure about pure CS, he can take a look at Saylor's CS classes. These are mostly NON-credit. (A few, like Software Engineering, can be taken for credit for only the cost of the proctored final, $25.) However, it's a free peek at what the full, for-credit classes look like at university, in case he wants to try the for-credit options at the college he chooses. It might help him decide what he wants to learn.

I'm talking about WGU and APUS' curricula. Since WGU doesn't have instructors, it's not the best place for people with no experience.

What is wrong with taking classes at TESU under the comprehensive tuition plan and tailoring your free electives to your needs? A lot of CS grads have to further their programming skills on their own. There might be an in-state university with an online CS program that's cheaper.

[sanantone]

At interview, they're going to be asked CS questions. At least here in Boston they are. I would suggest that any hiring person is going to see "BA CS" as very unusual among the pile of BSs, and look more closely at transcripts. And when they get to interview, if they haven't even *seen* most of the CS core classes (vs. the Wyoming curriculum), their Github is empty, they don't have a clue what a core dump is, or ARM vs x86 processor architectures, or the necessary OS conditions for deadlock (all common entry-level CS grad questions, at least around Boston)...then a) they're unlikely to be competitive against kids with full CS degrees who did take compilers, architecture, and OSs; and b) they've wasted some serious cash @ TESU for a not-very-CSy CS degree.

Harvard only offers a BA in CS. You're overestimating how prepared CS grads are solely based on college courses. The good programmers do lot of practicing outside of college courses. The point of the CS degree is to teach theory.

You do know that the non-traditional programs you suggested have none of this stuff? TESU does offer computer architecture and operating systems, by the way.