Associates in Computer ... something?

[SolarKat]

Harvard only offers a BA in CS. You're overestimating how prepared CS grads are solely based on college courses. The good programmers do lot of practicing outside of college courses. The point of the CS degree is to teach theory.

You do know that the non-traditional programs you suggested have none of this stuff? TESU does offer computer architecture and operating systems, by the way.

Sigh. As I mentioned in particular detail a couple of pages ago, AMU/APU don't offer CS, they have IT options with very heavy programming emphasis...a much better route than 7 random CS classes with TESU for a student wanting programming, as opposed to pure CS. And even WGU, with their software dev degree, require more AOS work than TESU BA CS. As stated before, if programming is the endgame, CS (particularly at TESU) is not going to give them much of a portfolio, if at all. They're not even required to *have* a programming language at TESU, yet still walk away with a CS degree. Shoot, the undergrad certificate requires a programming language, but the bachelors doesn't?! That's insane (at best) and a grievous disservice to their students.

As for comparing TESU's BA CS to Harvard...did you look at what Harvard requires for that CS concentration? To suggest that the two are equivalent is...well, really??

I do have some familiarity with average B&M CS folks and their skillsets, from undergrads through to post-docs, mainly in the high tech/engineering space. I don't have an alphabet soup after my name, because being a military wife has made traditional education a real challenge logistically, but perhaps similar to davewill, I have a fair bit of experience. My work in control systems is published (IEEE), I tutor and mentor undergrad engineers (and the occasional CS student needing to intersect with engineering), I've been active with IEEE and ACM for decades, and even though I don't have a CS degree, I *can* tell you about OS threading, ARM architectures, and why hardware beats software like a rented mule (winking at davewill), because those things come up in real life from my non-CS vantage point.

So when I'm reading that someone is getting a CS degree without it requiring even a basic class in operating systems, I'm very concerned for them. Very. TESU might *offer* the class, but it's not required. And a naive student may not even realize that their competition in the job market (from traditional CS programs, for example) *do* have background/experience with it, and with algorithms, and with architecture, and...well, just refer back to the 18 classes required at Wyoming, compared to the 2-required/5 options at TESU. It's not nearly the same degree. It may work out okay if they just want a job "doing something" with computers, like a business who needs someone to maintain/run a software system for the Point of Sale terminals. Or they've been working a job and will get a raise/promotion with a degree (without requiring a significant change of skill set).

But if they're a bright-eyed, freshly minted CS grad going to Seattle or San Fran or Boston or DC to *be* a high tech computer scientist raking in those big bucks, the TESU degree alone is not going to cut it. I'm presenting this viewpoint because there are a lot more youngsters looking at nontraditional education, such as this student, and many homeschoolers. He may or may not understand the product he's considering buying, because he has little/no background in the field. To him, CS is CS. In the tech world, CS is the 18-class degree, not the 7-class degree. The student doesn't really see the difference, until he gets to a computer science position interview and gets asked the basics that he didn't learn because no one like davewill, who does have a software career and who did get accepted to CS grad school (and who also says to just do brick & mortar in lieu of TESU BA CS), is around to tell him what he's going to miss if he just does the required minimum without understanding what the rest of the world considers the core of a CS degree? Or he'll discover he needs to spend even more money on undergrad-level computer science classes which are prerequisites for the mainstream MS CS, (if he gets accepted at all) because no one told him that his accredited CS degree overlooked a ton of core classes that all the other applicants have. I mean, for a young student, there are an awful lot of down sides to that one upside, "checking the box for a CS degree". He'll potentially get more core CS with the TESU undergrad certificate and a BSBA than with the whole TESU BA CS, depending what 5 CS electives he chooses for the BA. Seriously. And that's a sad thing.

ETA - And I'll go a step farther and say that my *own* TESU degree path with the BS Data Science & Analytics is insufficient (and misleading) for a data science degree! It's not nearly enough CS to go into data science without a lot of outside experience/supplemental coursework. It's not business-y enough to seamlessly merge into analytics for a company without smoothing out the edges. And I'm doing it specifically because it's FAST, so fast, and because I know that my brick & mortar transcript (of math/sci/eng) combined with the checkmark of "degree closely related to engineering" will fulfill admission requirements for the MS Engineering I know I'm doing next (having verified this with both grad admissions and the engineering department chair). Otherwise...I'd say it's useful for a mid-career check-box, or a sketchy overview of the field. It's not sufficient for a young student, either, if they want to dive deep in data science. So I feel their pain!