Older students and the liberal arts

[MA2]

3. White women have gained the most from affirmative action since its inception, and since white females tend to marry white men, I can also say that affirmative action has indirectly benefited the white males who are married to these women.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. So when I'm turned away for a job because they hired a less qualified minority, it's ok because my wife got a job? I worked hard to get to where I'm at, and the best man or woman for the job should get hired. No bonus points for being black/female/hispanic etc. Anything besides that is racist/sexist etc, plain and simple.

I can't change the past injustices people may or may not have suffered... but two wrongs don't make a right.

[TheCommuter]

I can't change the past injustices people may or may not have suffered... but two wrongs don't make a right.

And this is a statement with which I can totally agree and appreciate.

[PonyGirl93]

People need to stop looking at statistics of income versus gender or color of skin and look at individual people.
Of course women make less than men. Its due to biology. I know many many women who went to college, got a job, worked 2-5 years and left for 10 years to raise a family. They are heroes in my opinion. But they do sacrifice earning potential to be the primary care giver.

Also I see women take more responsibility at home and leave meetings at 4:45 pm in order to be able to be home with the kids while their husbands work til 7pm. Its a culture thing. Men typically value achievement at work more than women do and women value forming bonds and relationships more than men. Its what makes us human. Read Men are From Mars and Women are From Venus and you will see that women are different than men.

Plenty of women make more than plenty of men. My boss is a woman and she makes a lot more than I do I am sure of that. Her husband stays at home with the kids and if he went back into the workforce he would make a third of her salary.

Some of the statistics are done very poorly, but others are extremely accurate. Some of them have researched it purely on what job the employees are doing, how much they are making, and if they are male or female, and they have found that women doing the same jobs as men do make less.

I'm well aware that males and females are different, thanks for the update I have nothing against women staying home with their kids, I think that is a fantastic decision, but I think that women who want to be, and have the ability to, should be free to be just as successful monetarily as men. Not more money for the same job, just truly equal.

And, not saying I agree with this, but the whole feminism "beef" is exactly that "culture thing" that you refer to. They don't want to be the ones who value the home life over work.

the best man or woman for the job should get hired. No bonus points for being black/female/hispanic etc. Anything besides that is racist/sexist etc, plain and simple.

This ITA with.

[ryoder]

Have you ever had your car spit on by a mob because of your color?
Has anyone ever said they hated you and they wanted to hit you over the head with a baseball bat because they thought you were a white male of privilege?
Has anyone ever said to another that held a door open for you, "don't hold no door open for no cracker!"?

I can answer yes to all of these questions.
I do not let it anger me. I know that there are people who will never accept me because I am white and I can live with that.

[FinancialWorld]

Have you ever had your car spit on by a mob because of your color?
Has anyone ever said they hated you and they wanted to hit you over the head with a baseball bat because they thought you were a white male of privilege?
Has anyone ever said to another that held a door open for you, "don't hold no door open for no cracker!"?

I can answer yes to all of these questions.
I do not let it anger me. I know that there are people who will never accept me because I am white and I can live with that.

WOW, WOW, and [SIZE="5"]WOW[/SIZE]. Well I guess we need affirmative action then. NOT!!!!

[cookderosa]

This article from Town Hall (full disclosure: I'm not a liberal) got me thinking. The article lists a few questions and answers from a recent sociology exam, and the questions bear an obvious and significant anti-US bias. Those of you on the left may believe the bias is justified. But I don't think anyone could deny that the bias is there and the questions are not designed to elicit original thought by the student.

I took sociology more than 20 years ago, and it wasn't anything like what the article describes. But, as an over-40 EC history major, I did take some EC courses as well as ECEs in the social sciences (history and foreign policy), and there were times when material from my textbooks gave me pause. Sometimes something I read seemed like half the story, or at least slanted, and I would make a mental note to seek information from other sources one day when I had time. Other times, in writing papers and responding to exam essay questions, I felt I should refrain from expressing any opinion that might not jibe with the instructor's lest it affect my grade.

I wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences as an adult liberal arts major. It's one thing to be 19 years old, away from mom and dad for the first time, and have this distinguished instructor standing on an ivory pedestal telling you how you should view the world. It's quite another to be returning to school in your 30s or 40s, bringing your well-informed, carefully-considered, and oh-so-middle-class opinions with you.

Yes, I've ranted on this from time to time (personally leaning heavily to the right). In a few cases, I just flat out did the assignment withough argument. In 3 cases I had trouble. Case 1 was as a student in TESC's Management of Stress and Tension class. I don't know why, but that was one of the more liberal courses I took! In one chapter I remember them being very anti-marriage (I'm happily married 18 years) and I questioned this position in our forum. If memory serves, the author was an unmarried person (WTH?) but the teacher totally zoned right in on me and point by point attacked my perspective. I let it go, pulled a high A and moved on with my life. In case 2 it was a a Contemporary Social Issues course. It was taught by 3 lefties (a NOW board member, an openly gay man, and a female who was clearly left but not nearly as vocal to our class). Anyway, we had to write an essay using the prompt (paraphrasing from memory) "Explain the ways in which President Bush has ruined our country" lol. Uh, excuse me? I handled that very politically, picking on a tiny thing and just going with it- it didn't matter, I wasn't going to change their mind and it wasn't going to be shared with the student body. But the third case was in a philosophy class. My paper was being graded by a 20-something teaching assistant, and for some reason my first assignment sent her into a tizzy. It wasn't even a heavy issue hilarious but her critique of my essay was LONGER than my essay. lol, I knew I had to drop- I wasn't going to play along. I did write a short letter to the dept, but I'm sure it got nowhere since no one even followed up or acknowledged my email.

My perspective, is that I'm a 40 year old woman who knows who she is. Yes, I have a world view like everyone else that could always be expanded, but I'm not searching to learn about the world in the way a young person is. My children, while I like to see them explore the issues of our world, need to skip the crap. In my opinion, the social sciences are worth CLEPping because it's a roll of the dice. (and that's what my degree is in!) It's not a case of seeing the world, knowing both sides, expanding your mind blah blah blah. I TEACH my kids to think, argue and challenge. However, there are social science teachers who have absolutely NO INTEREST in discussing both sides, probing your thought process and showing you a new idea-they are only interested in evangelizing and selling their kool-aid. The student who disagrees is called out and the grade suffers. Some aspects of earning a degree can be such a waste of time and money and brain space.

I plan to use teachers as little a possible- that's both in our homeschool and extending to college. My kids don't need their information filtered. I, however, find it amusing now that my grade doesn't hang in the balance. When you are in it, however, it's a desperately frustrating situation to keep your mouth shut.

[FinancialWorld]

cookderosa. I totally agree with your post. That is terrific that you're teaching your children to think for themselves. They definitely won't end up like the cookie cutter kids from the public school system. (In a very sarcastic voice) "Wow, kids that can really thing for themselves. That's amazing".

[PonyGirl93]

My kids don't need their information filtered. I, however, find it amusing now that my grade doesn't hang in the balance. When you are in it, however, it's a desperately frustrating situation to keep your mouth shut.

Technically, everyone's information is filtered. You are filtering your kids' information. Not to say that it can't be filtered correctly- I think that it can, but it's always being filtered to some extent.

Back on the topic of teachers, most of my profs are quite decent (Law enforcement people don't tend to be overly liberal ), my SOC-299 prof is quite liberal (although I think she's pro-life), but she normally keeps it to herself. I have been pleasantly surprised by the lack of shoving-down-throat at this quite liberal CC.

[cookderosa]

Technically, everyone's information is filtered. You are filtering your kids' information. Not to say that it can't be filtered correctly- I think that it can, but it's always being filtered to some extent.
.

Yes, I am their double filter because I am their parent and also their teacher. That's on purpose. hilarious

There is a significant difference between someone telling your child (or other adults) "these are the facts and these are the opinions" and someone saying "you are wrong, and if your essay reflects that view, I'm going to fail you in this course." I can site a dozen examples where I have experienced that first hand.

Even where I teach, and it's disgusting. My best friend took English 101 where I teach (a liberal class? How can that be?) and the instructor told the students on day 1 that she wouldn't grade anything pro-life since she was pro-choice, it would be returned and you'd receive a zero. This is English. 101. Required by our state. 4,000 students per year at my college will take this course, and about 500 of them go through her class. Now, am I pro-life? Who cares. It's a WRITING CLASS. This teacher injected her agenda where it was inappropriate, but my college allows us the freedom to do so. In fact, in my 18 years I've never EVER heard of someone getting suspended or fired for anything. So, essentially, I can say and do what I want. Scary?? It should be.

[MA2]

He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future. -Adolf Hitler