Shmoop ACE Plan Changes?

[jsh1138]

I'm sure you don't mean it like this, but jsh1138 your messages really come off sounding like you're just upset that other students aren't going to have to take as long to finish their degrees as it took you to finish yours and that somehow makes them terrible.

No I don't mean it like that at all. I'm currently still in school, working on other degrees.

I was actually hoping MORE people would get to use Sophia but some of the people here are ruining it for them, the same way Shmoop was ruined for us. And before Shmoop it was another place, and before that it was somewhere else. It just makes alot more sense for people to say "I think these courses are hard but fair and I am moving through them at an appropriate pace" but of course people can't do that because they have to brag about how they got their BA in a month or whatever.

Just like awhile back there was an article about some guy who got his Master's in a month. Guess how likely it is that they don't make some changes to that program after that hits the news? All you're doing by bragging is killing it for everyone else. If I get a Master's in a month you guys here will never know it, I promise you that. Any time TESU or COSC has a rule that everyone here on the forum is sure is set in stone and I get them to bend it for me, I don't come back here and brag about how I got them to break policy or whatever. Just be smart about what you're saying, and "I sure do love how it's open book because that lets me zip through all the courses without even reading them!" or whatever isn't smart.

[rachel83az]

Before Shmoop it was just subject GREs and the CLEPs. And there is absolutely no reason why the subject GREs stopped being taken for credit at the big 3 except just because. They are both proctored and extremely rigorous.

[openair]

jsh1138,

I agree with your comment about people ruining it for others. My whole point was that you became a part of that very clique. I am not saying that you joined them on purpose. I am just saying that the type of questions that you raised were similar to the ones that we've all heard from that group. You may have had different intentions. I understand that. It just turned out that way. Always consider the full implications of your position.

[jsh1138]

Before Shmoop it was just subject GREs and the CLEPs. And there is absolutely no reason why the subject GREs stopped being taken for credit at the big 3 except just because. They are both proctored and extremely rigorous.

Those weren't the only ones. The FEMA courses got disallowed too. I mean I'm not going to do the list but quite a few of them have been. I agree sometimes it's capricious, that's why it's best not to draw attention to them.

[Merlin]

Hey folks,

It sounds like this argument is going in a circle. Let's try to focus it in one direction or pivot to another topic.

Personally, I agree with jsh1138 in that Sophia's "proctoring" system is not proctoring.... it is a marketing gimmick. It has also been discussed before on this forum as it is a bit of a controversial issue. That said, Sophia is one of the best providers and I personally like the way they present their courses more than the other providers. However, I also worry that their lack of traditional proctoring could cause problems for people eventually. All it will take will be one incident like what happened with Shmoop and/or enough people talking about being able to move through courses fast at Sophia. Personally, I think Sophia should go back to traditional proctoring to avoid any hint of impropriety.

We know that representatives of the Big 3 do monitor this forum, and when people brag about being able to game the system in one way or another, it will eventually lead to investigations and potentially cause the limitation of access to specific courses or providers. So it does nobody any good to talk about how easy courses are, how fast they can get through degree programs, or make suggestions as to academic integrity issues related to any particular provider or service.

In any case, I think it is healthy to discuss these issues now and then. But at the same time, encouraging people to take courses at Sophia now before there is an incident that leads to the Big 3 re-evaluating them may actually be counterintuitive as it could potentially lead to that kind of incident or evaluation.

We already know that the big 3 (TESU in particular) are always reevaluating their ACE programs and changing how they evaluate different courses. So the message I'd use is that students should always try to take advantage of courses at any low-price provider as much as possible because they could lose their evaluation at any time once someone at TESU or elsewhere decides to make a change.

[Old Guy]

Proctoring? How does proctoring add to security? Those hundred dollar fake driver's licenses look pretty good. Unless they are verified with the issuing authority, they don't mean much.

[ss20ts]

I'm sure you don't mean it like this, but jsh1138 your messages really come off sounding like you're just upset that other students aren't going to have to take as long to finish their degrees as it took you to finish yours and that somehow makes them terrible.

No I don't mean it like that at all. I'm currently still in school, working on other degrees.

I was actually hoping MORE people would get to use Sophia but some of the people here are ruining it for them, the same way Shmoop was ruined for us. And before Shmoop it was another place, and before that it was somewhere else. It just makes alot more sense for people to say "I think these courses are hard but fair and I am moving through them at an appropriate pace" but of course people can't do that because they have to brag about how they got their BA in a month or whatever.

Just like awhile back there was an article about some guy who got his Master's in a month. Guess how likely it is that they don't make some changes to that program after that hits the news? All you're doing by bragging is killing it for everyone else. If I get a Master's in a month you guys here will never know it, I promise you that. Any time TESU or COSC has a rule that everyone here on the forum is sure is set in stone and I get them to bend it for me, I don't come back here and brag about how I got them to break policy or whatever. Just be smart about what you're saying, and "I sure do love how it's open book because that lets me zip through all the courses without even reading them!" or whatever isn't smart.

The person completing their master's in a month didn't do alternative credits. There are almost none for grad school. The person probably has years of experience and whizzed through the courses and didn't read much because they knew the material. It also doesn't mean they graduated with a 4.0. They could have graduated with a 3.0 which is the bare minimum for most grad schools. 

My husband is taking some IT courses right now. He has 25+ years of experience in IT. He's flying through the courses he has experience in. Why? He's being doing it forrrrrever. He just needs the piece of paper saying yeah he knows how to do this.

[jsh1138]

You don't know what they did but don't let that stop you

[openair]

Keyboard biometrics might be perfectly suitable for a testing environment in which lengthy course material is accessible to the student during the exam. The student must then search for answers to highly specific questions within this huge pile of information and recall things from the course during a timed exam. This is how I would picture Sophia exams. What would webcam monitoring from afar add to this type of course setup? Why isn't proctoring aiming at security enough? If the courses had a different structure and expectations (maybe that's what some people on this board are advocating), the proctoring method might need to be adjusted. But I see a perfect proctoring alignment with the structure of the Sophia courses, particularly with what Sophia wants to make available to students during each course exam.

[ss20ts]

Many b&m courses don't have a final exam. They have a final project/research paper. There's zero proof that the student who submitted it wrote it. It's called integrity and honesty. Those are necessary skills for us all to possess in our academic life and work life and probably the rest of your life as well.

Lots of professors offer open book final exams. What's the point in proctoring them? Some even given the final exam to students to take home and complete it then return it the last day of class. When this was an option, a group of us would work together on the exam. The professor knew it. Seemed like they expected it. Everyone didn't get an A. Everyone didn't even pass. We all had to submit our work which may have been a multiple choice test or short answer essay.

How is this any different than Sophia? Those b&m schools haven't shut down. The profs weren't fired. Many of those schools are considered some of the best research institution in this country.