Dismissal of online learning still a thing?

[MNomadic]

@MNomadic

In most programs in the sciences and specifically in the medical field, there are things you can do online and things you need to do in-person. That is fine and I would never dispute that setup. I'm actually against programs that are targeting clinical practice but don't include clinical training and actually find it rather irresponsible.

What I am in favor of is an online program that allows you to take the parts that don't need to be done in-person online, while mandating in-person training for the parts where hands-on training is indispensable. I think that's a reasonable thought process.

What struck me is how people dismissed that and ignored the fact that the online learner would have the same level of hands-on training in the critical parts that required it. The blanket idea of throwing away all online programs because a few are run irresponsibly is in itself irresponsible on the part of the detractors.

I am one hundred percent in concurrence with you. Some stuff does NEED to be hands on and in person. However, driving to a campus downtown, dealing with parking, trekking across campus to sit in a lecture hall of 500 people to listen to a lecture on theory(accompanied by a PowerPoint), see if they take attendance, and hand in a paper assignment is a complete waste of time and money nowadays.

I get far more out of a video where I can speed it up, skip the fluff, rewind/read the transcripts when I need to, pause to run errands, bring the laptop into the bathroom with me(if I had beans earlier that day), multitask on the easier stuff, etc. And then email the assignment in when I'm ready.

[eLearner]

@High_Order1

The proper word for Nursing programs is probably "Hybrid", part online, part in-person.

Ok

Where was I discussing a nursing program? I talked about law enforcement, paramedic, medical school, and a blip about military training.

Take a look at the post from eriehiker you responded to...

Also, my guess is that paramedic training and medical school training would follow the same point anyway. Certain parts simply aren't allowed entirely online or at least I doubt any state would license a person from that program with no hands-on training.

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@MNomadic

In most programs in the sciences and specifically in the medical field, there are things you can do online and things you need to do in-person. That is fine and I would never dispute that setup. I'm actually against programs that are targeting clinical practice but don't include clinical training and actually find it rather irresponsible.

What I am in favor of is an online program that allows you to take the parts that don't need to be done in-person online, while mandating in-person training for the parts where hands-on training is indispensable. I think that's a reasonable thought process.

What struck me is how people dismissed that and ignored the fact that the online learner would have the same level of hands-on training in the critical parts that required it. The blanket idea of throwing away all online programs because a few are run irresponsibly is in itself irresponsible on the part of the detractors.

I am one hundred percent in concurrence with you. Some stuff does NEED to be hands on and in person. However, driving to a campus downtown, dealing with parking, trekking across campus to sit in a lecture hall of 500 people to listen to a lecture on theory(accompanied by a PowerPoint), see if they take attendance, and hand in a paper assignment is a complete waste of time and money nowadays.

I get far more out of a video where I can speed it up, skip the fluff, rewind/read the transcripts when I need to, pause to run errands, bring the laptop into the bathroom with me(if I had beans earlier that day), multitask on the easier stuff, etc. And then email the assignment in when I'm ready.

Things like surgery sims, IVs, taking blood, complex lab work, CPR, first aid, bandaging, stitching, anything that really requires hands-on to be competent should be hands-on so those things I'm in favor of staying as in-person activities.

I do find it scary that there are CPR and first aid programs that are entirely online. That just doesn't sound good at all to me.

[High_Order1]

However, driving to a campus downtown, dealing with parking, trekking across campus to sit in a lecture hall of 500 people to listen to a lecture on theory(accompanied by a PowerPoint), see if they take attendance, and hand in a paper assignment is a complete waste of time and money nowadays.

Or, like the medical school I am familiar with, once you get in there, your lecturer is on a different continent and interacting with you via teleconferencing equipment. HUGE, multiple giant screens. But you have to scan your card in the classroom so they can monitor attendance. (shrugs)

Take a look at the post from eriehiker you responded to...

Ok. I don't see it.

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Things like surgery sims, IVs, taking blood, complex lab work, CPR, first aid, bandaging, stitching, anything that really requires hands-on to be competent should be hands-on so those things I'm in favor of staying as in-person activities.

I do find it scary that there are CPR and first aid programs that are entirely online. That just doesn't sound good at all to me.

I was actually going to make that point. I've been taking and teaching CPR/1st Aid since the 70's.

If a person can learn it on their own, or they learn better via a monitor... who am I to say? The issue I see with totally on-line certifications in those areas are that when I see the AHA/ARC card, I sort of can believe they've performed in front of a person to a standard. When I went through whoever I went through for the online only stuff... I watched videos, read text and took tests. No one observed me perform to a standard.

IF they can address that somehow, I got no problem with it. It's a brave new world digitally

[eLearner]

They do have digital dummies you can buy that give accurate feedback for procedures, but I doubt many people buy them given the cost. I think schools/programs are the chief purchasers. But in that example, at least if a person wanted to get as close as possible to what they'd be doing in a classroom that would give them an edge.

[keepsingin]

@MNomadic

In most programs in the sciences and specifically in the medical field, there are things you can do online and things you need to do in-person. That is fine and I would never dispute that setup. I'm actually against programs that are targeting clinical practice but don't include clinical training and actually find it rather irresponsible.

What I am in favor of is an online program that allows you to take the parts that don't need to be done in-person online, while mandating in-person training for the parts where hands-on training is indispensable. I think that's a reasonable thought process.

What struck me is how people dismissed that and ignored the fact that the online learner would have the same level of hands-on training in the critical parts that required it. The blanket idea of throwing away all online programs because a few are run irresponsibly is in itself irresponsible on the part of the detractors.

I am one hundred percent in concurrence with you. Some stuff does NEED to be hands on and in person. However, driving to a campus downtown, dealing with parking, trekking across campus to sit in a lecture hall of 500 people to listen to a lecture on theory(accompanied by a PowerPoint), see if they take attendance, and hand in a paper assignment is a complete waste of time and money nowadays.

I get far more out of a video where I can speed it up, skip the fluff, rewind/read the transcripts when I need to, pause to run errands, bring the laptop into the bathroom with me(if I had beans earlier that day), multitask on the easier stuff, etc. And then email the assignment in when I'm ready.

Interesting thread.

I know a number of B&M nursing/med students and have heard a lot of their arguments dismissing online learning, and a big part of these arguments have regarded the discipline and rigor required to attend B&M nursing/med classes. Things like getting up at the crack of dawn to attend classes from 7:30am til evening when they go to work 2nd and 3rd shifts. There's the idea that online college attendees are just doing it to avoid interaction with people, schedule structure, and to be able to cheat 10x easier than B&M learning allows. And they say that online learners mask all this by saying they're choosing the smarter, cost-effective path.

Drawing from my online education experience compared to my friends' experience attending B&M schools, I definitely agree with the sentiment that when it comes to equivalent hands-on/book learning in the online/hybrid/B&M methods, the quality and adequacy of learning comes down to the individual more than the method.

[eLearner]

Where I live, there are two colleges in the city. Both offer Nursing courses as twice a week, 3 hour courses, 6:30pm-9:30pm.

[High_Order1]

Where I live, there are a dozen institutes of higher education.

Several offer nursing. Some of those offer online portions. The others offer multiple time slots for classes.

The only thing I'll say is that actual nursing slots are very competitive, and schools are kind of ranked.

[WitsEnd]

@MNomadic

In most programs in the sciences and specifically in the medical field, there are things you can do online and things you need to do in-person. That is fine and I would never dispute that setup. I'm actually against programs that are targeting clinical practice but don't include clinical training and actually find it rather irresponsible.

What I am in favor of is an online program that allows you to take the parts that don't need to be done in-person online, while mandating in-person training for the parts where hands-on training is indispensable. I think that's a reasonable thought process.

What struck me is how people dismissed that and ignored the fact that the online learner would have the same level of hands-on training in the critical parts that required it. The blanket idea of throwing away all online programs because a few are run irresponsibly is in itself irresponsible on the part of the detractors.

I am one hundred percent in concurrence with you. Some stuff does NEED to be hands on and in person. However, driving to a campus downtown, dealing with parking, trekking across campus to sit in a lecture hall of 500 people to listen to a lecture on theory(accompanied by a PowerPoint), see if they take attendance, and hand in a paper assignment is a complete waste of time and money nowadays.

I get far more out of a video where I can speed it up, skip the fluff, rewind/read the transcripts when I need to, pause to run errands, bring the laptop into the bathroom with me(if I had beans earlier that day), multitask on the easier stuff, etc. And then email the assignment in when I'm ready.

I disagree. For one thing you should not be sitting in 200 student lecture halls for your 300-400 classes but instead in classes that are 20-40 people large. That is why its fine to do the first 2 years at CC or online but for your last 2 years you really are missing out on some important connections with professors and the industry. You might learn the same material but that is not whats the most important for liberal arts and biz degree holders. Its the connections that count at the end of your degree. I am sitting here with a great GPA and if I want to get a masters I need to think about getting letters of rec from my professors. Which is much harder for me being just a number in an online class.

[a2jc4life]

You might learn the same material but that is not whats the most important for liberal arts and biz degree holders. Its the connections that count at the end of your degree. I am sitting here with a great GPA and if I want to get a masters I need to think about getting letters of rec from my professors. Which is much harder for me being just a number in an online class.

I would think this would depend on the online program.  I've had a pretty good rapport with a number of my online professors (and the ones I didn't, I doubt I would have in a regular classroom, either).

[MNomadic]

@MNomadic

In most programs in the sciences and specifically in the medical field, there are things you can do online and things you need to do in-person. That is fine and I would never dispute that setup. I'm actually against programs that are targeting clinical practice but don't include clinical training and actually find it rather irresponsible.

What I am in favor of is an online program that allows you to take the parts that don't need to be done in-person online, while mandating in-person training for the parts where hands-on training is indispensable. I think that's a reasonable thought process.

What struck me is how people dismissed that and ignored the fact that the online learner would have the same level of hands-on training in the critical parts that required it. The blanket idea of throwing away all online programs because a few are run irresponsibly is in itself irresponsible on the part of the detractors.

I am one hundred percent in concurrence with you. Some stuff does NEED to be hands on and in person. However, driving to a campus downtown, dealing with parking, trekking across campus to sit in a lecture hall of 500 people to listen to a lecture on theory(accompanied by a PowerPoint), see if they take attendance, and hand in a paper assignment is a complete waste of time and money nowadays.

I get far more out of a video where I can speed it up, skip the fluff, rewind/read the transcripts when I need to, pause to run errands, bring the laptop into the bathroom with me(if I had beans earlier that day), multitask on the easier stuff, etc. And then email the assignment in when I'm ready.

I disagree. For one thing you should not be sitting in 200 student lecture halls for your 300-400 classes but instead in classes that are 20-40 people large. That is why its fine to do the first 2 years at CC or online but for your last 2 years you really are missing out on some important connections with professors and the industry. You might learn the same material but that is not whats the most important for liberal arts and biz degree holders. Its the connections that count at the end of your degree. I am sitting here with a great GPA and if I want to get a masters I need to think about getting letters of rec from my professors. Which is much harder for me being just a number in an online class.

I suppose I was referring to some of the lower level courses I had taken at B&M where I was just a number in a 300-500 person class. Everyone's needs are different. For me, I don't currently a need a university for industry connections(not that it would hurt) since recruiters actively contact me with opportunities. I understand the needs for connections and networking which is why I go out of my way to find those outside of the college setting. 

Again, everyone's needs are different. I find that my needs are met more efficiently with my path. Others may not.