Associates in Computer ... something?

[jsd]

If you're not looking at management, the general hierarchy in much of the IT world is:

Experience --> Certification --> Fromal education

Obviously there are exceptions and such, but in general nothing beats experience in the field (and while degrees are a great bonus, they're not as mandatory as they are in most other big fields).

[sanantone]

As an older millennial, the thing we struggle with is "how do you get experience when everyone requires experience?" It's easier to get internships while you're in college. I think generation X and the Baby Boomers are often unaware of how much the job market has changed. Experience is great when you have it. It is kind of meaningless to tell a young person that people with 20 years of experience in the IT field don't need a degree or certification because those people got into the field 20 years ago when degrees were less important across the board.

It would be nice if every person magically had 20 years of experience, but they don't. So, how does someone break into the field today when the entry-level requirements are higher? There was an article written about the IT brain drain in San Antonio. While so many companies were going to other states to recruit people with experience, those who just graduated from college had to leave the city to find jobs.

[dfrecore]

As an older millennial, the thing we struggle with is "how do you get experience when everyone requires experience?" It's easier to get internships while you're in college. I think generation X and the Baby Boomers are often unaware of how much the job market has changed. Experience is great when you have it. It is kind of meaningless to tell a young person that people with 20 years of experience in the IT field don't need a degree or certification because those people got into the field 20 years ago when degrees were less important across the board.

So, how does someone break into the field today when the entry-level requirements are higher?

It's that catch-22. You need to be able to work for a pittance or even unpaid to be able to get experience. But how does someone who wants to switch career fields do that? Any hiring manager looks at a 40-yr old and thinks "no way is this guy going to stay here in this job for this pay!"

And, some of the best certs require years of experience just to sit for them. For a CISSP, you need 5 years of experience in 2 areas of the cert. A 4-yr degree will only knock 1 year off of that! You need this cert to get a great job, but you can't sit for the cert because you don't have the experience.

I think that even with the explosion in the IT field of jobs, it's harder than ever to get into the field. You kind of either have to start young and at the bottom, or you're kind of screwed.

[dfrecore]

I believe with both of those, you may qualify for a cup of coffee at starbucks, provided you bring $5 to the deal.

(I kid, but I do also have an A+ from 2002)

I was going to say that in my original post, but I wasn't sure how much a cup of coffee was! ("that and 5 bucks will buy you a cup of coffee").

My husband has an A+ from 1998. He's actually going to study for it again, because his work will pay for it, and he's thinking it would be an easy thing to knock off for the BSIT in Cybersecurity from WGU. Of course, he's 19 years older now, and he has a full-time job, travels, is married, and has 2 kids - nothing that he had back then, when he could study all day every day for the certs he needed. He's finding it a LITTLE bit harder this time around...even though he has 19 years of experience behind him.

[BingCherry]

Well he is brilliant at computer stuff. He would love to code - I'm sure would be his fav thing. He's only 22 and just starting out. He's at the perfect time to get something going for college. He had interest before in writing games. Not sure if that's the correct word. Writing. Haha.

[sanantone]

It's that catch-22. You need to be able to work for a pittance or even unpaid to be able to get experience. But how does someone who wants to switch career fields do that? Any hiring manager looks at a 40-yr old and thinks "no way is this guy going to stay here in this job for this pay!"

And, some of the best certs require years of experience just to sit for them. For a CISSP, you need 5 years of experience in 2 areas of the cert. A 4-yr degree will only knock 1 year off of that! You need this cert to get a great job, but you can't sit for the cert because you don't have the experience.

I think that even with the explosion in the IT field of jobs, it's harder than ever to get into the field. You kind of either have to start young and at the bottom, or you're kind of screwed.

Being in my early 30s, there is probably no way I could change fields. Many of the truly entry-level jobs pay less than what I make in social/protective services. As you said, they would probably assume that I wouldn't stay long at those wages. Plus, I would probably have to leave my advanced degrees off my application and resume.

But, I haven't really tried hard to switch to IT. I've tried to switch to other fields, but I've been pigeon-holed to everything criminal justice because I've been working in that field for the past 10 years.

Someone asked my why I was getting my PhD in CJ if I had more interest in public health. Well, that was the program that accepted me.

[Ideas]

Well he is brilliant at computer stuff. He would love to code - I'm sure would be his fav thing. He's only 22 and just starting out. He's at the perfect time to get something going for college. He had interest before in writing games. Not sure if that's the correct word. Writing. Haha.

Being game developer is competitive. But either way, developing games or not, he should probably do a Computer Science degree if he's willing to do that much work now. Otherwise, maybe something quicker and easier, but with a goal to come back and get a Bachelor's in CS someday. You said money is tight, but perhaps he can get federal and/or state financial aid (or apply for scholarships).

With a Computer Science degree, he can get paid a lot for coding

[SolarKat]

I'm interested in hearing more about the OP's son's experience to date, before making any suggestions. The CS degree is not the be all, end all...it's a ton of math (so find out now if he wants to DO the ton of math before doing a deep dive into it), and for someone who may just want to write games ("software development, software engineering"), CS may not be the best path for this.

I don't see them mentioned much on this board, but the OP might take a look at AMU/APU, @ $270/cr. It's not the "quick and easy" way, but in my opinion it gives someone just starting out a lot more depth in their field. As a comparison, TESU's BA CS requires 33 credits in the AOS...but only 21 credits (out of 120cr in the degree) are actually "computer" stuff... and 12cr in that 33 are math. By comparison, AMU/APU have an BS IT with a required 39cr in fundamentals (all computer stuff, math is a different category), plus a 15cr concentration requirement (programming, mobile computing, etc). This is more than double the computer coursework of the TESU BA CS. They also have related degrees like Info System Security, Cybersecurity, etc. These degrees will not be super quick...far fewer gen eds. But for a kid just starting out, with little to no background/work experience in the field, these degrees will build a lot more skills/knowledge. (Also, where the TESU BA CS requires basically 7 classes, the TESU certificate in CS requires 6, without any of the math required in the BA...so basically the same knowledge for much less pain.)

AMU/APU offer a payment plan for degree students (an 8 week class is paid in 2 installments, a 15-16 week class is paid in 4), which could help balance the finances a bit. And there's still federal student aid. Also, you still can transfer stuff in - gen-eds, math, IT, etc, which saves $. There are probably other good options for a software development degree (search "software enginineering", too).

If he's interested in hardware, that's more in the computer engineering vein, which he could do online as a masters (I've never seen CompEng as a distance/online program, but it may be out there) if he builds in the prereqs as part of his undergrad path. He can definitely do an online electrical engineering degree (BSEE), and choose electives that are more computer-y...like embedded systems or mechatronics instead of communications or power. The BSEET takes a very hands-on approach - he might enjoy the technical side (EET) of hardware more than the theory side (EE, CompE). Or, he could do the TESU BA CS and choose assembly language & C, architecture, and UNIX within the degree, then take some circuits classes from the EET (digital logic would be very important) transfer in some embedded systems, FPGA, control theory, etc, from other providers into the free electives. This also is not super-quick, but it does open more doors in hardware than the BA CS plan as written. There are a dizzying number of options...so it's important for him to narrow this down much more than "something with computers".

If I was advising my own youngster who had a big interest in tech/computers, I'd be pointing him in the direction of something more like AMU/APU, or possibly towards something competency-based like WGU (I don't know anything about their programs, but the forum has a ton of threads - but competency and relevant certifications at least document skills with a portfolio for show & tell after graduation). I'd only recommend TESU CS for an older/more experienced student who needed something fast without worrying too much about development of skills (checking that "HAS A DEGREE" box on the resume), or if they already had a ton of work experience in the field, or if they had a solid plan to develop the skills outside of the degree. And possibly if they were in a lesser-developed market, where CS isn't so competitive. Here in Boston, where CS MS/PhDs are practically reduced to bartending due to the glut from the many colleges, the TESU BA CS can't compete unless the candidate also has a ton of noteworthy prior experience/accomplishment in the field. (Full disclosure, my oldest is a brick & mortar computer engineering student at a well-known Boston university...so I'm seeing from the ground what the kids in this area are up against, trying to break into their field.)

Also, your local community college may have the basics (esp circuits, math beyond calc 2, instrumentation, etc) at a very low price. These could be good transer credit options.

There are a lot of ways to approach this problem, taking into consideration time, resources/money, desired career outcome (short- and long-term), personal interest/experience in particular specialties...I'd like to hear more from the OP, to better tailor a suggestion.

Final word - whichever way this student decides to go, that doesn't have to be decided at this particular moment. He should start knocking out gen-eds (keeping an eye on the lists for whichever programs might be interesting, to reduce duplication/excess credits in gen-eds). If CS is a definite interest, he should start the math sequence, to see if he wants to slog through all of it.

[sanantone]

I think the best way to decide which degree you should pursue is to look at a lot of job ads. Game development is a hard field to break into, and you have to be willing to move because the jobs aren't everywhere.

APUS' program is sort of like TESU's BSAST in Information Technology, but TESU's program is more technical. APUS' program resembles an MIS or CIS program. I looked at the programming concentration, and it has a few courses in web development. That's not going to be helpful for game development. Most of the other courses are in office presentation applications, security, information systems, and web analytics.

[sanantone]

After going through a lot of job ads, employers seem to mostly want experience with C++. Java, C, and C# were some of the other languages I saw. TESU's BSAST requires C++ and software engineering along with several other courses that could be used in their CS program. When the job ads listed a preferred or required major, I saw computer science listed. I think a degree in computer science or an IT program that focuses more on software than hardware would be most appropriate, but the CS program will lay a better foundation. Another option would be WGU's software development program, but you would need to learn more programming languages on the side.