Why does DegreeForum like ENEB

[eLearner]

I thought ENEB said that the transcripted "Masters by Test" option would not include any actual grades, unlike the transcript for the traditional all-written course? At least that's what they told me in my email correspondence with them.

I heard the opposite based on an email another poster discussed, but maybe ENEB has changed its mind on it since then? If so, that's a good thing. Either way, I won't respect or recognize the 50 question milled degree as an actual Master's, it's just junk that should automatically be disqualified. ENEB went completely off the deep end with this nonsense.

[SophiaPrincess]

There are a lot of misconceptions about European degrees in general, and ENEB in particular. Higher education is heavily subsidized in most European countries and often free. The fact that a legitimate degree can be earned for $300 seems shocking to North Americans but perfectly normal in Europe.

Most nations have no equivalent to Titulo Propio degrees. They signify study of a subject to some level of familiarity below mastery. Titulo Oficial degrees include more rigorous testing which conveys the presumption of mastery of the subject.

Proctoring is a relatively new. For centuries education was accomplished using the honor code. The ENEB degrees depend upon the integrity of their students. Exams and papers are not a degree. If they correlate well, exams and papers may serve to demonstrate mastery. However, the absence of corroborating evidence of mastery, such as tests or essays, doesn't invalidate a degree. Rather, it places the responsibility of demonstrating learning on the graduate.

I am reminded of a story by the great Dr. John Bear. One of the members of his doctoral dissertation evaluation team at Michigan State was called away from Dr. Bear's dissertation defense early in his presentation. Before departing, the evaluator, who was leaving, gave a note to one of the other evaluators which was read then crumpled and thrown in the trash can. Dr. Bear retrieved the note afterward. It said something along the lines of please congratulate John for a great dissertation.
John Bear was presumed to have done well preparing his dissertation by the departing evaluator. At least at the graduate level, students are presumed to take their education seriously. Students are expected to be personally responsible for their education. This is the way a degree at ENEB should be approached. If you expect hand-holding and supervision you will be disappointed.
I am a lowly Sophia student. Student are entirely responsible for their own learning in much the same way as ENEB.

[nykorn]

There are news articles you can read, in Spanish, about ENEB, the founder, education method, why they chose the tuition deal, their profits, etc.

I also found a whole ton of detailed reviews in Spanish, viewpoints and reviews which I haven't really seen discussed on this forum or the sister forum. I'd recommend for the OP to go Google these and read them, as most of them are also unconcerned with accreditation status. Long story short, it's not just a piece of paper, people are actually using the knowledge they got from ENEB. Some didn't necessarily get promotions or pay raises but they feel a lot more confident at work and think it was worth the money.

I myself got a 50 cent raise and got transferred to front desk and payroll. It was not totally the ENEB degree by itself, it was in part because a manager found out I was getting the degree and recommended me to the big boss based on that and my work ethic. I was able to talk enough about something that it impressed someone. And 50 cents may not sound impressive but it's the first raise I've ever gotten in my life.

[eLearner]

There are a lot of misconceptions about European degrees in general, and ENEB in particular.  Higher education is heavily subsidized in most European countries and often free. The fact that a legitimate degree can be earned for $300 seems shocking to North Americans but perfectly normal in Europe.

Most nations have no equivalent to Titulo Propio degrees. They signify study of a subject to some level of familiarity below mastery. Titulo Oficial degrees include more rigorous testing which conveys the presumption of mastery of the subject.

Proctoring is a relatively new. For centuries education was accomplished using the honor code. The ENEB degrees depend upon the integrity of their students. Exams and papers are not a degree. If they correlate well, exams and papers may serve to demonstrate mastery. However, the absence of corroborating evidence of mastery, such as tests or essays, doesn't invalidate a degree. Rather, it places the responsibility of demonstrating learning on the graduate.

I am reminded of a story by the great Dr. John Bear. One of the members of his doctoral dissertation evaluation team at Michigan State was called away from Dr. Bear's dissertation defense early in his presentation. Before departing, the evaluator, who was leaving, gave a note to one of the other evaluators which was read then crumpled and thrown in the trash can. Dr. Bear retrieved the note afterward. It said something along the lines of please congratulate John for a great dissertation.
John Bear was presumed to have done well preparing his dissertation by the departing evaluator. At least at the graduate level, students are presumed to take their education seriously. Students are expected to be personally responsible for their education. This is the way a degree at ENEB should be approached.  If you expect hand-holding and supervision you will be disappointed.
I am a lowly Sophia student. Student are entirely responsible for their own learning in much the same way as ENEB.

This has been a deal for years now. I think most people are past the shock of the low prices of Spanish education. That's not the issue anymore.

"The ENEB degrees depend upon the integrity of their students. Exams and papers are not a degree. If they correlate well, exams and papers may serve to demonstrate mastery. However, the absence of corroborating evidence of mastery, such as tests or essays, doesn't invalidate a degree. Rather, it places the responsibility of demonstrating learning on the graduate."

Mastery is not guaranteed because one writes papers and takes multiple exams, as there is a difference between short-term recall to pass tests and research information, and actual mastery which is demonstrated by a person's ability to access the correct information from their own mind without reference material. 

However, where your concept is totally flawed is in the misunderstanding of the difference between milling and mastery. Writing papers and taking multiple exams provides the absolute highest probability that mastery will be obtained versus a 50 question exam which ensures absolutely no possibility that mastery will be obtained. There is no way at all that a person can prove their knowledge of 13 Master's-level courses in a 50 question exam. The very idea is completely ridiculous. The courses in an MBA program have very specific knowledge, terminology, and introductions to systems that most human beings—even those with lots of business experience—wouldn't just know.

[nykorn]

I think the wording above is potentially confusing: It is NOT one single 50 question exam for all courses, or for an unlimited number of degrees. You get one exam per degree, minus the MBA exam which is paired with another degree's at random. I have not seen ENEB refer to the sections within a degree as "courses", they are referred to as sections, including on the transcript. A better wording might be "modules".

This means if you registered for the 3 degrees of MBA, a Master's in HR, and a Master's in Marketing, you will have 2 exams, both of which are 50 questions each. If you register for the MBA and 9 other Master's, you will have 8-9 exams, all of which are 50 questions each. One exam per course, not one exam per section. And as the exam format seems to be relatively new and they have an interest in how their degrees are perceived, I assume they may change this in the future.

In real life terms, while a "one year course" is equal to 40 weeks of study (each uni semester being 20 weeks) at a normal school, some American schools get you the equivalent of 30 ECTS in 8 weeks of study or less, instead of 20. Some schools automatically grant credits based on work history or "proven competency" including portfolios and testing out - someone I know tested out of 10 classes at an American school for Business Administration, and seems to know even less than what I learned from ENEB in some categories (doesn't know anything about international business for example). I personally have taken a 3 hour test (not administered by a university or as part of a class) that, if passed, grants the user the equivalent of 3-4 semesters of college credit (up to 120 ECTS). While I agree the ENEB exam should be more rigorous and there should be less than 2 hours allotted to taking it, if you look at all the other schools in the world... it fits in line with how schools are.

Also keep in mind this is only a one-year Master's, which are apparently only actually intended to teach you the basics to begin with, at any school. Even moreso when you can get in without having a Bachelor's in the field. If you look up 2 year Master's, you'll see a lot of discourse about this.

[RoboPanda]

I received 1 (one) 50 questions exam for writing MBA, Master in Big Data and Master in Digital Marketing.

6 questions repeated themselves. So I successfully proved my master for 3 masters by completing a 46 questions exam

[eLearner]

I think the wording above is potentially confusing: It is NOT one single 50 question exam for all courses, or for an unlimited number of degrees. You get one exam per degree, minus the MBA exam which is paired with another degree's at random. I have not seen ENEB refer to the sections within a degree as "courses", they are referred to as sections, including on the transcript. A better wording might be "modules".

This means if you registered for the 3 degrees of MBA, a Master's in HR, and a Master's in Marketing, you will have 2 exams, both of which are 50 questions each. If you register for the MBA and 9 other Master's, you will have 8-9 exams, all of which are 50 questions each. One exam per course, not one exam per section. And as the exam format seems to be relatively new and they have an interest in how their degrees are perceived, I assume they may change this in the future.

In real life terms, while a "one year course" is equal to 40 weeks of study (each uni semester being 20 weeks) at a normal school, some American schools get you the equivalent of 30 ECTS in 8 weeks of study or less, instead of 20. Some schools automatically grant credits based on work history or "proven competency" including portfolios and testing out - someone I know tested out of 10 classes at an American school for Business Administration, and seems to know even less than what I learned from ENEB in some categories (doesn't know anything about international business for example). I personally have taken a 3 hour test (not administered by a university or as part of a class) that, if passed, grants the user the equivalent of 3-4 semesters of college credit (up to 120 ECTS). While I agree the ENEB exam should be more rigorous and there should be less than 2 hours allotted to taking it, if you look at all the other schools in the world... it fits in line with how schools are.

Also keep in mind this is only a one-year Master's, which are apparently only actually intended to teach you the basics to begin with, at any school. Even moreso when you can get in without having a Bachelor's in the field. If you look up 2 year Master's, you'll see a lot of discourse about this.

Semantics bordering on extraneous. Calling them "sections" is nothing more than the chosen vernacular of that area of the world. Here in North America, they're known as courses. Same difference. In the same vein, in North America we call an entire degree offering a program, while in Spain they call a entire degree program a "course". Same difference.

I think most here understand that, so I see no confusion.

Also keep in mind this is only a one-year Master's, which are apparently only actually intended to teach you the basics to begin with, at any school. Even moreso when you can get in without having a Bachelor's in the field. If you look up 2 year Master's, you'll see a lot of discourse about this.

Rationalization. Choice supportive bias. Inaccurate concept. Master's degrees are not designed to teach basics, that is done at the Associate and Bachelor's level. Admission policies are a separate matter. A Master's degree is called a Master's degree for a reason. And even if Master's degrees were generally meant just for basics, a 50 question exam would still not accomplish teaching the basics, so this fails that test as well.

I get why you're trying to rationalize all of this, but personally my ethics would never allow me to defend this. I would be embarrassed to present myself as a holder of a Master's after doing this because I would know I did not put in the work to earn a Master's degree. A proper 1-year Master's is rigorous, this 50 question exam farce is not. To compare them is a mistake of apples and oranges at best, intellectually dishonest at worst.

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I received 1 (one) 50 questions exam for writing MBA, Master in Big Data and Master in Digital Marketing.

6 questions repeated themselves. So I successfully proved my master for 3 masters by completing a 46 questions exam

Holy cow. That is just AWFUL. There is no defending that. This is a total diploma mill now. What a disaster, smh.

Yeah, I'm contacting Spain's Ministry of Universities next week. No way they're aware of what's going on.

[Thorne]

Holy cow. That is just AWFUL. There is no defending that. This is a total diploma mill now. What a disaster, smh.

Yeah, I'm contacting Spain's Ministry of Universities next week. No way they're aware of what's going on.

ENEB isn't a university, and I'm not sure the Spanish system prevents this or cares to. I've found other sites granting access to a Propio degree in some topic or another from a recognized University where you need to do 1-3 tests for the whole thing.

The big difference is that ENEB's exams run $600 (?) total while the other places I've found charge $3,000+

Edit: If we want to make headway, probably best to contact Isabel itself and see what they do about it. I haven't found any other programs paired with UI which offer an exam option and it is rare at least (even though it really should not happen at all). If the Ministry of Universities is interested, that would be great, I'm just not super hopeful about it

[spree610]

Holy cow. That is just AWFUL. There is no defending that. This is a total diploma mill now. What a disaster, smh.

Yeah, I'm contacting Spain's Ministry of Universities next week. No way they're aware of what's going on.

Why would you even bother? They are propios to begin with so they already aren't recognized for academia in Spain. ENEB is a business school and they've already stated they developed the new methodology in cooperation with Isabel I. Though I can't find the link to where I read that right now.

[eLearner]

ENEB isn't a university, and I'm not sure the Spanish system prevents this or cares to. I've found other sites granting access to a Propio degree in some topic or another from a recognized University where you need to do 1-3 tests for the whole thing.

The big difference is that ENEB's exams run $600 (?) total while the other places I've found charge $3,000+

Edit: If we want to make headway, probably best to contact Isabel itself and see what they do about it. I haven't found any other programs paired with UI which offer an exam option and it is rare at least (even though it really should not happen at all). If the Ministry of Universities is interested, that would be great, I'm just not super hopeful about it

I know ENEB is not a University. Isabel is, and Isabel is putting their stamp on it. I'm pretty confident they know by now, and if they don't that would mean they have poor oversight of the schools they certify which is another good reason to contact the Ministry of Universities.

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Why would you even bother? They are propios to begin with so they already aren't recognized for academia in Spain. ENEB is a business school and they've already stated they developed the new methodology in cooperation with Isabel I. Though I can't find the link to where I read that right now.

I'm not sure what the academia point has to do with the issue. Most people aren't interested in teaching at a college or university. Besides that, propio credits are transferred within Spain's system to other propio programs, and in the United States those credits are transferred into U.S. schools after successful foreign credential evaluations. 

But, the issue here is that a fraud is being pushed. That's plenty of reason to bother.

"they've already stated they developed the new methodology in cooperation with Isabel I"

All the more reason to contact the Ministry to discuss this baloney "methodology". "Methodology", smh. It's a 50 question test, and one guy here reported getting 3 degrees from one 46 question test. Clearly, their "methodology" is a complete sham.