Why Charter Oak State College is better than Thomas Edison State College

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Way too many assumptions all round.

I'm sure I could pass a TECEP with an A - but it'd be a waste of time for me given that there are faster and more efficient methods for getting credit rapidly.

Like taking two courses at COSC...even though courses are 'stupid'
Or taking PF courses, yup they are much faster than TECEPs

TESC requires only one course to complete. A course that can be tested out of, using a TECEP that you could easily pass (but it's too hard for everyone else) or even taking a cheaper/easier course elsewhere.

If courses are a waste of time then doesn't that make TESC the path of least resistance?

I'd say so far, the quality of the responses on this discussion board have been very emotional, hackneyed, and lethargic

Perhaps the typical forum user here has trouble learning, or some other problem that elicits their own self-insecurities.

Sometimes people have no idea when others are trying to help them by pointing out flaws in their approach. Reflective thought is a blessing.

[KittenMittens]

Way too many assumptions all round.

Like taking two courses at COSC...even though courses are 'stupid'
Or taking PF courses, yup they are much faster than TECEPs

TESC requires only one course to complete. A course that can be tested out of, using a TECEP that you could easily pass (but it's too hard for everyone else) or even taking a cheaper/easier course elsewhere.

If courses are a waste of time then doesn't that make TESC the path of least resistance?

Sometimes people have no idea when others are trying to help them by pointing out flaws in their approach. Reflective thought is a blessing.

Having to take two (easy) courses through COSC is a downside of COSC, but it comes out cheaper by about $500 - $1000 compared to TESC’s “enrolled option” program. Just because I was forced to take 2 courses through COSC, doesn’t mean I was thrilled taking them - I still think they were a waste of time especially the cornerstone course which is just hogwash - you have to do silly discussion assignments and discuss what you hope to get out of your degree at COSC - but they gotta make their money somehow. But doing similar/same coursework through both programs - COSC is still cheaper and trying to keep costs as possible was part of the equation as well.

Penn Foster courses can and most often are faster than TECEPs for the fact that all the answers are on the internet, many exams have no proctor, and the coursework can be completed in a day or two. They provide you with course pamphlets where you can learn everything you need to pass and most likely get an A or B in the course. Penn Foster is notorious for that kind of stuff which is why people do it - it's also really cheap for the course. I don’t think I’d be able to pass the TECEP in Strategic Management that easily without sufficient prep which would include reading a textbook from cover to cover which would be pretty painful and take a long time. I guess if I didn't want to spend $237 for a PF course, and spend only $110 to save $127 plus money for a textbook, it might be slightly worth it but meh. That’s because they take test questions out of a particular edition of a particular textbook which forces you to read like 600 pages which is just sheer pain and agony for most people. It's like reading the white pages and regurgitating names from it for some exam.

TESC would be the ideal path, except for the fact that doing 8 TECEPs is probably too much work for most people if going for the “per credit” plan. I suppose someone could do the TESC’s “enrolled option” avoid taking any coursework or TECEPs and take PF Strategic Management to quickly/easily get credit for that requirement. That could work - it would be better than COSC if a student wants to avoid any coursework altogether but it will cost another $500-$1000 for that. So yes, if you want to spend $7,000 for the program through TESC versus $6,000 through COSC to avoid any TESC courses or COSC courses, then that’s an option, but I tried to keep cost in mind. Like I've said, if TESC came down a little in price, I would urge people to go for TESC in a heart beat (for their "enrolled options" plan). Make it like $2800 not $3250 for the year "membership fee."

Note: On the instantcert forum, there are I think 16 TECEP topics, which either have no feedback, little feedback, or old feedback from like 6 years ago. The Excelsior exams that are covered are recent as of 2015.

Excelsior Exams:

1) ECE Ethics - 200 comments - use IC cards (recent as of 2015) - people recommend IC cards and practice exams
2) Psychology of Adulthood and Aging ECE - 39 comments (recent as of 2015) - people recommend using IC cards and practice exams
3) Human Resource Management DSST and ECE - 85 comments (recent as of 2015) - recent as of late 2014/2015 - people recommend IC and practice exams are enough
4) Research Methods in Psychology ECE - 34 comments (recent as of 2015) - I think this is a harder exam as it’s more quantitative so I don’t recommend it, but IC may not be enough.
5) Social Psychology ECE - 27 comments (recent as of 2015) - people recommend doing a thorough indepth review of IC and practice exam should be enough, but probably one of the harder ones. Some textbook use may be needed.
6) Organizational Behavior - ECE - 27 comments - (recent as of late 2014) - people recommend IC cards and practice exams
7) Abnormal Psychology ECE - 37 comments - comment as recent as mid 2014 - probably avoid
8) Labor Relations ECE - 19 comments - IC cards and practice exams are enough

COMPARE TO


TECEP Exams:

1) TECEP Operations Management - 13 posts
2) TECEP Federal Income Taxation - 5 posts - someone recommend reading a 250 page IRS tax code. Jesus Christ.
3) TECEP Strategic - 0 posts
4) TECEP Business Policy - People recommend reading a 13 chapter textbook.
5) TECEP Technical Writing - 5 posts - People say it’s straightforward, but why do it when you can do CLEP instead?
6) TECEP Sales Management - 3 posts, last post in 2009, someone says that TECEPS are way harder than CLEPs/DSSTs
7) TECEP Business Society - Last post was in 2008 - have to read textbook
8) TECEP International Finance - 3 posts, last one in 2008 - read textbook
9) TECEP Thanatology - 1 posts from a long time ago, Read textbook
10) TECEP Marketing Research - 1 post from 2008
11) TECEP Science of Nutrition - Read a textbook, last post in 2008…
12) TECEP Intro to Computer Info Systems - Last post in 2007 people recommend reading textbook if you don’t have a strong background
13) TECEP Public Relations - Read textbook
14) TECEP Operations Management - 13 posts - use IC and read textbook
15) TECEP Abnormal Psychology - 1 comment
16) TECEP Psychology of Women - Read textbook

Here’s an example of the typical TECEP exam that someone wrote about in the exam forum (note: TECEP advice is scarce in the exam forum though there is a lot of advice for CLEP, DSST, and UExcel).

“TECEP Advertising today.

Since it was my first TECEP, I was a little nervous. Let me say that I wholeheartedly concur with the other posters that this exam was horribly worded, and the four answer choices were incredibly ambiguous. So many of the questions could have had more than one correct answer. I thought CLEP and DSST tests were ambiguous, but they are not, compared with this TECEP. Usually, I don't mind taking tests, but I was pretty frustrated by the end of this one because of the lack of clarity.

However, I feel pretty confident that I passed, since you only need to answer 60 of the 100 questions correctly to pass.

I took CLEP Marketing recently, so there was a little bit of overlap in the material. To study for the TECEP, I bought William Arens' Contemporary Advertising textbook (11th ed.) used from Amazon, for less than $10, including S&H. The textbook was first-class, and was actually a pretty enjoyable read because of all the advertisement examples and illustrations. I studied over a period of two weeks, although I probably only studied six days, no more than four to five hours a day.

I did NOT read the textbook slowly, but used speed reading techniques since the book has over 600 pages. I answered the end-of-chapter questions for the first five chapters or so, but then stopped because it was taking too long.


One thing I recommend doing before the test is to read the chapter summaries at the end of each chapter to get a "big-picture" recap of what you have previously read....A very helpful feature. I did study the official 20 sample questions, and several of them showed up on the actual test.”

Overall, the people who took TECEPs generally read a 600 page book from end to end which generally takes a couple to few weeks to do. That's very meticulous and mind numbing. A lot of people with the Excelsior exams agree that you can study in a day or two using flash cards, and practice exams (which cost like $25) and pass.


I think that's very meaningful; in addition to what others have generally stated about TECEPs being a pain in the ass, and time consuming to study for, there is little feedback from people who prepared from the exams. That in combination with lack of review materials, practice exams, and 92% of TECEP exams having no instantcert flash cards (which have been proven to be invaluable for CLEP, DSST, and UExcel exams to the point where people could study a few hours for an exam and pass!), makes TECEP the least desirable option for the efficient student who wants to rapidly accumulate upper level credits to complete a standard liberal arts or business degree (because many of the easier UExcel can satisfy a business admin degree).

Instantcert didn't make stuff for TECEP because of how few people do that stuff. You can see it on the front page of instantcert.com where there's literally only 1 or 2 submitted test result for the 3 TECEPs available whereas each UExcel exam has like 50 submitted test results with people generally passing at over 95% high rates.

That speaks volumes.

Opinions are one thing, but opinions backed by solid data is even more powerful.

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I still think they were a waste of time.

PFs can and probably are faster than TECEPs for the fact that all the answers are on the internet, many exams have no proctor, and the coursework can be completed in a day or two.

TESC would be the ideal path, except for the fact that doing 8 TECEPs is probably too much work for most people if going for the “per credit” plan.


That speaks volumes.
Opinions are one thing, but opinions backed by solid data is even more powerful.

If you think it is a waste of time, why then do you insist on wasting other people's time.

Cheating on PF courses makes your plan easier? really.

It has already been pointed out to you that TECEP's are not the only way to meet the requirements for "per credit plan"

How is reading a book any longer than taking a course somewhere (if you don't cheat) again...SOME people might enjoy reading a book over taking a course. And again, it has already been pointed out to you that SOME people have been able to take tests cold.

Solid data What speaks volumes is your choosing to ignore ALL the people that have repeatedly told you how easy they found TECEPs.

You keep attacking something you actually have no knowledge of and make way too many assumptions.

I don't think anyone has a problem with your degree plan, but you insist on giving out information that is not accurate and based on your huge assumptions. Like I said early, it may be better to approach it with just factual information regarding COSC. Maybe others would appreciate it more, and it would be of more benefit to people. That is just a suggestion from me and I will leave you to it now

[KittenMittens]

If you think it is a waste of time, why then do you insist on wasting other people's time.

Cheating on PF courses.

It has already been pointed out to you that TECEP's are not the only way to meet the requirements for "per credit plan"

How is reading a book any longer than taking a course somewhere (if you don't cheat) again...SOME people might enjoy reading a book over taking a course.

You keep attacking something you actually have no knowledge of and make way too many assumptions.

I don't think anyone has a problem with your degree plan, but you insist on giving out information that is not accurate and based on your huge assumptions. Like I said early, it may be better to approach it with just factual information regarding COSC. Maybe others would appreciate it more, and it would be of more benefit to people. That is just a suggestion from me and I will leave you to it now

It’s sloppiness on the part of PF if they just use test banks that can be searched on google. PF even outright plagiarizes questions from other sources. Even without them, and for myself, I never needed to cheat since the questions were so easy. You get to retake each of the 5 quizzes twice for the highest score. Penn Foster’s stuff is so easy they could hardly be considered a course, more like “mini courses.” And despite all the rampant cheating going on with their materials, Penn Foster still fails to do anything about it - and their low standards is probably why they're not regionally accredited but nationally accredited. Fortunately, their courses are ACE certified so RA colleges do accept them.

The only practical ways you can meet the 24 credit residency requirement cheaply is by taking TECEPs, or coursework through TESC (and I think maybe Portfolio - but that is generally such a horrible option for most people because you have to spend a few hundred bucks to maybe get some credit - which is a big if). Practically no one here is interested in doing PLA (because it'd cost too much money for little credits likely) or coursework (which would cost several thousand dollars).

Most people tend to think that textbooks are dry, long, boring, sometimes poorly written, and so on. If you think reading a 1000 page book is more effective than using a concise, easy to understand, to the point review guide, then you’re living in a different world than I am as far as I’m concerned. Like I said, I’d wager most students want to complete credit as easily as possible, quickly as possible, and cheaply as possible. Reading a 1000 page book is the exact opposite of that. I really can’t debate this point any further as it’s you either agree with it or you don’t.

What information have I given out that was inaccurate? I’ve provided data, sound reasoning, and explanations that line up with that data. You’re just stating I’m wrong without backing it up - you’re giving opinions without any evidence. You were wrong about not having to take TECEPs through the “per credit” plan. There are some general underlying presumptions I made which are that most students are interested in getting a degree quickly, cheaply, and rapidly as possible with the least amount of effort/path of least resistance. That most students would rather read 1 page to pass an exam rather than read 1000 pages. That most people are interested in getting a degree to get a better paying job hence so many people going back to college in their 30s and 40s upon feeling the pressure to have a college degree to remain competitive in the job market i.e. the college degree has replaced the high school degree as the new entry level degree - that’s not really up for debate as far as I’m concerned.

Solid data What speaks volumes is your choosing to ignore ALL the people that have repeatedly told you how easy they found TECEPs.

You keep attacking something you actually have no knowledge of and make way too many assumptions.

Maybe you struggle with statistics as you've indicated in a previous thread, but it's significant enough to note that at least 10 people have complained about TECEPs, there is a consensus that many if not most of the TECEPs require you to read a textbook from cover to cover, only 2 people commented easy they found TECEPs (one who did 2 of the easiest 100 level ones possible, the other who claimed he can take a lot of exams and pass aka not the typical student), the instantcert forum where people either state you have to read the textbook from cover to cover, state that they are difficult or time consuming to study for(as I've shown above), or the lack of flash cards for them, the lack of prep materials, and lack of student submitted test information on the instantcert.com website.

You keep on making bold statements without backing them up - and you are claiming that "I have no knowledge about these things" without any solid examples besides N = 2.

Anyways, I've addressed this sufficiently, and even broke down what the general synopsis for studying for each UExcel or TECEP exam was like. Hint: The UExcels covered by InstantCert.com are generally passable in a few hours/few days with minimal prep versus the TECEPs where you have to prepare a lot longer in general. There are a lot of TECEP threads, but barely any comments in there, whereas there's a lot in the UExcel ones.

I can't make it any more obvious... and if you have trouble reconciling these differences, then that's something you have to deal with.

If you think it is a waste of time, why then do you insist on wasting other people's time

If I'm wasting your time, then don't read what's in here... No one's forcing you to participate. This statement you made is just rhetorical and your arguments are becoming personal, so I'll take my leave now.

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Whoever said you can meet the requirements of the TECEP by not taking TECEPs for the 24 credit residency of the “per credit” plan? You’re wrong. The only ways you can meet the 24 credit residency requirement is by taking TECEPs, or coursework through TESC (and I think maybe Portfolio - but that is generally such a horrible option for most people because you have to spend a few hundred bucks to maybe get some credit - which is a big if).

Again with your assumptions on how people think and what is best for other people.
People have completed PLA's at TESC and had no problem.

Most people tend to think that textbooks are dry, long, boring, sometimes poorly written, and so on.

Again with assumptions on how others think. SOME people read textbooks for fun.

You’re just stating I’m wrong without backing it up - you’re giving opinions without any evidence. You were wrong about not having to take TECEPs through the “per credit” plan.

Read post number 5. you were given clear information regarding the per credit tuition plan, YOU are choosing to ignore the information you are being given. How many backups do you need? it is clear to everyone on this forum, it is on TESC's website, it has been said several times in this thread. What more do you need to understand? is it really that difficult for you to understand?

and then...

You just said it yourself - You can take courses, and you can do PLA's to meet the requirements.

Do you really think TESC created the "per credit" tuition plan for TECEP takers?

Maybe you struggle with statistics as you've indicated in a previous thread, but it's significant enough to note that at least 10 people have complained about TECEPs.

Your reading comprehension skills are questionable...nowhere did I state that I struggled with statistics. It is interesting the way you make inferences, assumptions, and conclusions, very interesting.

You don't need to understand statistics to know that people share negative things more than they share positive.

You also stated that you spent hundreds of hours reading the forums etc. So you would know that people here have shared info about TECEPs and have completed a degree using them. You would also know that people share specific information on certain TECEPs and that there are courses available for quite a few TECEPs. Your problem is that you are choosing to ignore all the positive information.

Your 'data' is biased and inaccurate.

This statement you made is just rhetorical and your arguments are becoming personal

I won't point out how many personal remarks you have made throughout this entire thread.
Maybe you should read back yourself and think about that.

[KittenMittens]

Again with your assumptions on how people think and what is best for other people.
People have completed PLA's at TESC and had no problem.

Yeah, I think I speak for more people than you. People like instant results, and things on a silver platter rather than by grinding and working significantly harder. As they say, "Work smart, not hard" if possible at least. Day laborers physically hard but they get paid pennies, professionals, managers, or whomever is paid higher on the socioeconomic totem pole knows how to prioritize and delegate responsibilities efficiently because they know their time is valuable and that someone else can do the work for them. Some enjoy busting their chops, most don't. Most people don't spend all day on the forums like Sanantone with 5000 posts day in and day out for years, and don't have that level of commitment to reading several textbooks for the sake of saving a few grand. Most people have the attention span of a cat, and can read a page of text more easily 1000 pages. That’s so obvious that I’m not even going to entertain the notion you’re arguing. ‘Nuff said.

Again with assumptions on how others think. SOME people read textbooks for fun.

You’ve indicated a dislike to taking easy exams to get a college degree quickly, yet you’re guilty of the same thing by taking a lot of easy credits through non-traditional means like ALEKS, and Straighterline which are not really immersive college courses. You too are trying to get credit as easily as possible, otherwise you'd really should be going through more arduous, and involved courses. Most people don’t like to read textbooks for fun. It’s like me saying that most people don’t find fat people attractive, I probably couldn't test this idea easily, but it’s something generally not disputed much, and one can logically infer that that's highly possible. Of course, I’m not here to prove this to you, that’s for any spectator to decide for themselves.

Read post number 5. you were given clear information regarding the per credit tuition plan, YOU are choosing to ignore the information you are being given. How many backups do you need? it is clear to everyone on this forum, it is on TESC's website, it has been said several times in this thread. What more do you need to understand? is it really that difficult for you to understand?

Considering this is a 176 post thread, I'm not going to remember each and every exact little point word for word. You stated you can do the 24 credit residency without doing TECEPS - ok if you’re going to be THAT pedantic, yes you can do PLA or take TESC courses, but that’s going to jack up your total cost by several thousand dollars which defeats the purpose. For all intents and purposes, people are interested in the “per credit option” for the cheapness and that’s through TECEPs. Now you’re just grasping for straws and arguing like Sanantone did. Yes, you're technically right there are 2 other ways to get credit through the "per credit" plan through TESC and that's through PLA or taking courses, but you can't make the argument it's the cheapest any longer, which defeats the purpose of graduating with a degree that is cheap, convenient, quick, and relatively easy to do.

Even on Degree Forum Wiki someone states, “For the same cost of a "portfolio" - around $450 and 3 months, with no guarantee you will actually get any credit - you can take 3 CLEP tests and receive 9-18 credits! (30 if you passed 3 general subject tests and aced a foreign language test)”

Do you really think TESC created the "per credit" tuition plan for TECEP takers?

I don’t care who they created it for - none of these colleges originally designed these programs for people to completely test out of it - it’s just that clever people figured out streamlined and efficient paths in doing so. Again arguing a trivial point.

Your reading comprehension skills are questionable...nowhere did I state that I struggled with statistics. It is interesting the way you make inferences, assumptions, and conclusions, very interesting.

Nice ad hominem attack; though I wouldn't be so sure with the reasoning, reading skills, and mathematical skills you possess or possibly lack. And not that I'm trying to brag, I get paid north of 6 figures a year analyzing data for a living and using statistics on a daily basis in my profession, so that statement doesn't really bother me that much. You do also state in a previous post, “I spent a long time learning statistics and then completed the ALEKS course, but according to you it's fluff? I looked at your plan and it's impossible for me to follow, I can't do FEMA and I can't do CLEP tests. Your plan doesn't work for me, and quite a number of others that visit this forum.” I don’t know but to me, you seemed to imply that you struggled with statistics, and couldn't handle FEMA, and CLEPs with the way you word things. Normally, I'd figure the typical student would just need to go through ALEKS material, which is already pretty simple to pass and designed to be pretty accessible, but maybe that's just not the case for everyone.

You don't need to understand statistics to know that people share negative things more than they share positive.

And with that said, I’m done talking about this with you if the best argument you’ve got is “you don’t need to understand statistics to know people share negative things more.” A tremendous amount of people don’t take TECEPs for the reasons I’ve mentioned before and you’re trying your hardest to ignore or deny the statistics and the obvious things that are right in front of your face. Then again you believe it’s better or that the typical person would enjoy reading several textbooks over taking much easier exams for the “sake of learning.” Whatever, again I’m not trying to convince you or any of the other forum regulars, or their cheerleaders who perhaps spend too much time here or are too emotionally invested in their own beliefs.

You also stated that you spent hundreds of hours reading the forums etc. So you would know that people here have shared info about TECEPs and have completed a degree using them. You would also know that people share specific information on certain TECEPs and that there are courses available for quite a few TECEPs. Your problem is that you are choosing to ignore all the positive information.

Oh I looked, the overwhelming consensus as I’ve shown through comments, test submitted data, thread submissions, lack of instantcert flashcards and so on so evidently display it.

Your 'data' is biased and inaccurate.

Well considering you’ve failed to provide any empirical evidence for your assertions, you haven’t swayed me at all; and when you have a strong(er) background statistics besides that joke ALEKS course, then I’ll take that statement a little more seriously.

I won't point out how many personal remarks you have made throughout this entire thread.
Maybe you should read back yourself and think about that.

Pot calling the kettle black, and you’ve not-so-subtly made personal remarks as well and argued trivial details to the point of absurdity. I’ve probably made the least number of personal remarks compared to the racist that got banned, or Sanantone who raged quite a bit and wanted to censor me for disagreeing with her, questioned my fluency in English for being Indian, and personally attacking me on several occasions when I exposed the flaws in her reasoning. I’d have expected much more than that from her, but apparently I was wrong. Anyways, since we can’t come to any consensus on anything, let’s just agree to disagree. You’ve failed to convince me, and I, you, so there’s no point pursuing this discussion between us any further as it’s just become repetitive.

Best of luck on your endeavors, I'm sure you'll do fine.

[soliloquy]

Don't you people have some studying or homework to do? hilarious

[dposborne]

Well considering you’ve failed to provide any empirical evidence for your assertions, you haven’t swayed me at all; and when you have a strong(er) background statistics besides that joke ALEKS course, then I’ll take that statement a little more seriously.

I wouldn't necessarily call the ALEKS statistics a joke. I like to consider myself fluent in advanced mathematics and ALEKS Stats was a serious pain in the butt for me. You may argue that some may say that Statistics is a different kind of math altogether and it probably is, but I don't think I have ever had as much problem with a math related subject... ever... as I did with ALEKS Stats... CALC probably came close only because I did that online...

[rebel100]

[COLOR="#000080"]Hello Guys -

I'm weighing in here regarding the name calling and keyboard jousting that seems to have infiltrated and derailed the original thread discussion. As such I would remind one and all, old and new alike, to keep it civil and on point. Please be mindful that many current and potential IC-Forum-Classroom students may come across this thread and opt not to become members of our IC-Community so please return this discussion to the original topic and refrain from any further mud slinging so as to avoid any consequences.

Thanks.[/COLOR]

Yesterday, ShotoJuku reminded everyone to keep the discussion civil, one account has already received a time out, another has been banned...please keep the to the topic and play nicely.

[rebel100]

KittenMittens, please see my PM...