UMPI Collecting credits before applying?

[MSK9]

Yup, I had to move across the country for my medical program. You go where you get accepted and your life is on pause for years. Rotations are often hours away or in different states as you said. Residency will likely be in another state. Its a young person game.

At 54 I just can't see the benefit in this and I am all for getting degrees as a perosnal goal.

On the other hand.. many people at his age have done it. Many physicians have worked well into their eighties by choice. I would never dissuade someone simply based on their age. Are there many factors worth considering before making the leap? Certainly. However, the value of the sacrifice is relative and proportionate to the amount of output the pursuer is willing and capable of to achieve the goal.

Honestly the amount of info and knowledge required is like drinking through a fire hose constantly. 12-16 hour days studying 6 days a week. Its insane. Then the dreaded 2 years of clinicals after board exams. Half the residents I knew who were in their 20s or early 30s were semi-regretting the decision but too deep in to give up.

Do some medical students study this much? Indeed. Many people who fall within the 'medical student' archetype are also highly neurotic, to their own detriment. Is this type of studying necessary? More often than not, no. The boards are also spaced apart in time and content as skill and knowledge increase over time. USMLE Step 1 typically occurs between years two and three and covers the basic sciences years. Step 2 usually occurs between years 3 and 4 (or during year four) and covers the clinical knowledge. Step 3 combines some of both can be taken after graduation but is often taken after the first year of residency (internship). There are also what they refer to as "Shelf" exams during the core clerkships (decided by the school but administered via NBME). The final big exam beyond Step 3 is whatever specialty board the resident takes at the end of their residency training.


As someone who works in the realm, I would REALLY reconsider med school at 54. It is a 200-250k (Caribbean/US...Canada a bit cheaper) investment and realistically you wouldn't get done with residency till 60. Then you have 5-6 years of actual practice. You will spend your entire paycheck on loans. Med school is pretty ageist so I would be surprised if you got an admission to be honest. Even if you killed it with GPA/MCAT scores.

It can go as high as 400-500K when you include the costs of housing and related expenses, traveling for interviews and school supplies like computers, clothes, and whatever else. One of the benefits of working as a physician is there are both private and public programs that will reimburse tuition costs over time. Spending 'your entire paycheck' is bit dramatic but I can see how one could assume that. 


Adrian, should you do decide to accept the challenge, you can reach out to me with questions anytime.

MSK9

[bjcheung77]

@adrianeraldo, at 54, you can think of other options that get you into the Health Care professions, such as Physician Assistant and in rural areas or smaller clinics in the outskirts, you're most likely the main 'physician' overlooking LPN, RN's etc. Another option is to go for Nurse Practitioner, they're on top of the nursing chain and have very similar roles as a physician assistant... I would recommend you searching for similar professions and noting down their requirements.

I'm just 8 years your junior, I've thought about the medical professions, it really depends on where you want to get into and if you 'fit' in that role. It's not going to be an easy pathway, but you may be able to get there with the proper direction or guidance into those fields. Some students who have finished their Caribbean MD's are not able to get residency, they can't practice, thus they find alternative professions that are high paying but not patient centered.

[Duneranger]

Yup, I had to move across the country for my medical program. You go where you get accepted and your life is on pause for years. Rotations are often hours away or in different states as you said. Residency will likely be in another state. Its a young person game.

At 54 I just can't see the benefit in this and I am all for getting degrees as a perosnal goal.

On the other hand.. many people at his age have done it. Many physicians have worked well into their eighties by choice. I would never dissuade someone simply based on their age. Are there many factors worth considering before making the leap? Certainly. However, the value of the sacrifice is relative and proportionate to the amount of output the pursuer is willing and capable of to achieve the goal.

Honestly the amount of info and knowledge required is like drinking through a fire hose constantly. 12-16 hour days studying 6 days a week. Its insane. Then the dreaded 2 years of clinicals after board exams. Half the residents I knew who were in their 20s or early 30s were semi-regretting the decision but too deep in to give up.

Do some medical students study this much? Indeed. Many people who fall within the 'medical student' archetype are also highly neurotic, to their own detriment. Is this type of studying necessary? More often than not, no. The boards are also spaced apart in time and content as skill and knowledge increase over time. USMLE Step 1 typically occurs between years two and three and covers the basic sciences years. Step 2 usually occurs between years 3 and 4 (or during year four) and covers the clinical knowledge. Step 3 combines some of both can be taken after graduation but is often taken after the first year of residency (internship). There are also what they refer to as "Shelf" exams during the core clerkships (decided by the school but administered via NBME). The final big exam beyond Step 3 is whatever specialty board the resident takes at the end of their residency training.


As someone who works in the realm, I would REALLY reconsider med school at 54. It is a 200-250k (Caribbean/US...Canada a bit cheaper) investment and realistically you wouldn't get done with residency till 60. Then you have 5-6 years of actual practice. You will spend your entire paycheck on loans. Med school is pretty ageist so I would be surprised if you got an admission to be honest. Even if you killed it with GPA/MCAT scores.

It can go as high as 400-500K when you include the costs of housing and related expenses, traveling for interviews and school supplies like computers, clothes, and whatever else. One of the benefits of working as a physician is there are both private and public programs that will reimburse tuition costs over time. Spending 'your entire paycheck' is bit dramatic but I can see how one could assume that. 


Adrian, should you do decide to accept the challenge, you can reach out to me with questions anytime.

MSK9

I wouldn't say it's dramatic considering the number of workable years you have once you finish residency. Most MDs do not work into their 80s and those that do have done the craft for a very long time. Not fresh attendings in their 60s. In 10+ years I don't think I have worked with any residents above their early 40s. Are their older students out there? I am there sure there are but it's very rare.

I am not here to shatter this guy's dreams but I don't think he knows how in-depth the commitment is, to be frank (based on the data/info he provided). Certainly, I was lowballing the cost. It is highly dependent on schools (DO vs MD as well). Public service programs exist (Indian Health is one possibility), but also involve probably more moving. I knew a guy who went to Havre, MT for loan repayment. Okay for someone in their 20/30s, but for a guy with family in their 50s? I don't know.

I am well aware of the STEP exams and I just think you are underestimating the difficulty of someone cold pursuing this in their mid 50s and trying to get board certified in their 60s. This is assuming they match into a 3 year residency and not something longer.

I am not saying it's impossible, nothing is. But it's prudent to be realistic.

---

@adrianeraldo, at 54, you can think of other options that get you into the Health Care professions, such as Physician Assistant and in rural areas or smaller clinics in the outskirts, you're most likely the main 'physician' overlooking LPN, RN's etc.  Another option is to go for Nurse Practitioner, they're on top of the nursing chain and have very similar roles as a physician assistant...  I would recommend you searching for similar professions and noting down their requirements.

I'm just 8 years your junior, I've thought about the medical professions, it really depends on where you want to get into and if you 'fit' in that role.  It's not going to be an easy pathway, but you may be able to get there with the proper direction or guidance into those fields.  Some students who have finished their Caribbean MD's are not able to get residency, they can't practice, thus they find alternative professions that are high paying but not patient centered.

These are definitely options. PA programs generally want a couple years of medical experience though (at least EMT) and pre-reqs can take a year or longer. In-person definitely preferred and admission is very competitive. NP programs are similar. While there are direct entry programs (very pricey and selective) it is highly recommended to be a nurse first which once again takes at least 3-4 years if you go the BSN route (plus pre-reqs). NPs without nursing experience flounder a bit.

The reason I add these caveats is due to the fact I have been on admissions committees for programs like these.

[MSK9]

I wouldn't say it's dramatic considering the number of workable years you have once you finish residency. Most MDs do not work into their 80s and those that do have done the craft for a very long time. Not fresh attendings in their 60s. In 10+ years I don't think I have worked with any residents above their early 40s. Are their older students out there? I am there sure there are but it's very rare.

I am not here to shatter this guy's dreams but I don't think he knows how in-depth the commitment is, to be frank (based on the data/info he provided). Certainly, I was lowballing the cost. It is highly dependent on schools (DO vs MD as well). Public service programs exist (Indian Health is one possibility), but also involve probably more moving. I knew a guy who went to Havre, MT for loan repayment. Okay for someone in their 20/30s, but for a guy with family in their 50s? I don't know.

I am well aware of the STEP exams and I just think you are underestimating the difficulty of someone cold pursuing this in their mid 50s and trying to get board certified in their 60s. This is assuming they match into a 3 year residency and not something longer.

I am not saying it's impossible, nothing is. But it's prudent to be realistic.

To clarify, I said many have worked into their eighties; even if I hadn't known it to be true (which I do, infact), it would be statistically improbable to not not be true given the number of total physicians spread across civilization over time but that's splitting hairs.
Some examples:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/more-doct...-1.1126254
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/972844
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care...xtends-70s

Regardless, you're right in that it's his due diligence to do research on what the commitment entails. Thus, I listed both pro and con.

Some articles with thoughts on medical students >40 years old:

https://www.aamc.org/news/med-school-after-40
https://www.aamc.org/news/older-medical-...-and-match
https://medicalschoolhq.net/mshq-011-int...l-student/

'Difficulty' is a relative term. Whether or not the Adrian pulls the trigger is up to him and his family. Similarly, his success or failure lies with him alone. The process is a pain in the ass, especially for older people. I'm as willing to talk about the negatives of it as I am the positives. I'm merely providing the information and perspective to help him make an informed choice as someone who has done it.

[Duneranger]

I wouldn't say it's dramatic considering the number of workable years you have once you finish residency. Most MDs do not work into their 80s and those that do have done the craft for a very long time. Not fresh attendings in their 60s. In 10+ years I don't think I have worked with any residents above their early 40s. Are their older students out there? I am there sure there are but it's very rare.

I am not here to shatter this guy's dreams but I don't think he knows how in-depth the commitment is, to be frank (based on the data/info he provided). Certainly, I was lowballing the cost. It is highly dependent on schools (DO vs MD as well). Public service programs exist (Indian Health is one possibility), but also involve probably more moving. I knew a guy who went to Havre, MT for loan repayment. Okay for someone in their 20/30s, but for a guy with family in their 50s? I don't know.

I am well aware of the STEP exams and I just think you are underestimating the difficulty of someone cold pursuing this in their mid 50s and trying to get board certified in their 60s. This is assuming they match into a 3 year residency and not something longer.

I am not saying it's impossible, nothing is. But it's prudent to be realistic.

To clarify, I said many have worked into their eighties; even if I hadn't known it to be true (which I do, infact), it would be statistically improbable to not not be true given the number of total physicians spread across civilization over time but that's splitting hairs.
Some examples:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/more-doct...-1.1126254
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/972844
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care...xtends-70s

Regardless, you're right in that it's his due diligence to do research on what the commitment entails. Thus, I listed both pro and con.

Some articles with thoughts on medical students >40 years old:

https://www.aamc.org/news/med-school-after-40
https://www.aamc.org/news/older-medical-...-and-match
https://medicalschoolhq.net/mshq-011-int...l-student/

'Difficulty' is a relative term. Whether or not the Adrian pulls the trigger is up to him and his family. Similarly, his success or failure lies with him alone. The process is a pain in the ass, especially for older people. I'm as willing to talk about the negatives of it as I am the positives. I'm merely providing the information and perspective to help him make an informed choice as someone who has done it.

I get it, I am sure your perspective for him would be valuable.

[adrianeraldo]

Hay guys! Thanks everybody for taking the time to answer my questions whether you are in favor or not with my decision, yet you are using your precious time to answer and I appreciate that.
UPDATES
I got into UMPI and they sent me the approved credits. I still need to do some courses to complete.
So here are the courses that I need to take. I will be reading the forum searching for courses that I can do outside yourpace but if you already know the answer please feel free to share it with me/us:

Eng 121 = Information Literacy
Phi 152= Introduction to Ethics
ENG 211  Creative Writing
ENG 151 Intro to Lit or Hum 184= Disciplinary Relationships
Geo 101= Human Geography or SOC 100=Intro to Sociology
World Civilization or US History
Pos 101= American Government
Bus 200 Intermediate Business Computing
Bus 244 Management Information Systems
Bus 245 Programming for Managers
Bus 345 Database Management
Bus 141 Introduction to Project Management w/Microsoft Projects
BUS 440 Business Analytics

Thanks again!!
Adrian

[rachel83az]

Several of those can be Sophia classes. A couple can be Coursera certificates.

[ss20ts]

Hay guys! Thanks everybody for taking the time to answer my questions whether you are in favor or not with my decision, yet you are using your precious time to answer and I appreciate that.
UPDATES
I got into UMPI and they sent me the approved credits. I still need to do some courses to complete.
So here are the courses that I need to take. I will be reading the forum searching for courses that I can do outside yourpace but if you already know the answer please feel free to share it with me/us:

Eng 121 = Information Literacy
Phi 152= Introduction to Ethics
ENG 211  Creative Writing
ENG 151 Intro to Lit or Hum 184= Disciplinary Relationships
Geo 101= Human Geography or SOC 100=Intro to Sociology
World Civilization or US History
Pos 101= American Government
Bus 200 Intermediate Business Computing
Bus 244 Management Information Systems
Bus 245 Programming for Managers
Bus 345 Database Management
Bus 141 Introduction to Project Management w/Microsoft Projects
BUS 440 Business Analytics

Thanks again!!
Adrian

Some of these you can do on Sophia. Keep in mind that you have to take a minimum of 10 courses at UMPI.

[SophiaPrincess]

I agree medical school in your 50s would be a difficult choice. My father's friend's wife was a physician in the Republic of Georgia. They emigrated to the USA when she was in her mid 40s but her credentials were not accepted. It took her several years to gain admission to a US medical school with a near perfect MCAT. Despite being the top student in her class, she had enormous difficulty gaining a residency. She is finished now and working in a hospital but I don't think the suffering was worth it. Her daughter was married and out of the house during these years. Her husband supported her during these years but the stress took a toll on him as well.