Testing out vs. Sitting in class

[jmeitrem]

I was reading a forum today and came across an individual who was quite adamant about CLEP/DSST being a flawed system and an easy way out. He claimed that you don't learn or retain nearly as much and that CLEPs were meant for testing out of what you already know. I've only been testing for a couple of years, so I can't really say if I've retained information better from one or the other. I realize it depends on the individual effort put forth in either situation, but was wondering what you guys think. Do you think that you learn/retain more from a traditional semester/quarter of college than you do cramming for an exam? Do you think it defeats the purpose of Gen Eds, which is arguably to make you a well-rounded individual?

[ironheadjack]

I think what you learn in college is very dependent on the student. If you are interested in a subject you will retain the information you learn, be it studying for a CLEP or sitting in a classroom for three months. If a subject doesn't interest you, you are less likely to retain the information.

Psychology always interested me, so I remember some of the material I learned in college. Whereas I took a sociology course and I don't remember a thing from that course because the subject matter didn't interest me at all.

[Daithi]

I much prefer learning by studying on my own.

When I was in high school (a long time ago) I took a computer programming class because it sounded easier than taking trigonometry, which was my other choice. The first day of class I was completely lost. This was around 1980, and the IBM PC hadn't even been invented yet. Computers hadn't yet become ingrained in our society like they are today, and at the time I had no idea what a computer even did. In my mind it was just a box, kind of like a microwave, that did "something". I knew it didn't cook my food, but that was about all I knew.

I was so completely lost that I went to the library to see if I could find a book that would explain things better than the teacher. I found a nice simple book on BASIC programming and then everything started falling together. To my surprise, I loved programming. I started working on a program that would play Blackjack. I spent hours and hours on this program. While in other classes, like English, I would write programming code into a notebook (paper based) and then during lunch, computer class, and after school I would be in the computer lab typing in my code and working on getting my program working. I struggled with problems and had to figure out how to solve them on my own. I went on to teach myself how to program in Pascal and Assembly Language. I went way beyond the level of the programming teacher. I was REALLY learning.

Since that time I've taught myself other subjects as well. I've taught myself mathematics up to the calculus level. I've taught myself basic electronics. I've taught myself how to play poker at a very high level (I've won several tournaments at Foxwoods). I failed miserably at learning Irish on my own (you can't succeed at everything). I can kick butt when watching Jeopardy or playing Trivial Pursuit. Many of my friends have advanced degrees and I hold my own in conversations quite comfortably. This is all because I've educated myself. I didn't need a classroom and a teacher.

Given a choice between a traditional classroom environment and the CLEP/DSST/etc. route, I'd take CLEP/DSST/etc. every time. The traditional classroom moves way too slow for me. In the traditional environment I do not struggle learning the material. I struggle making it to class on time, learning at the school's schedule, handling conflict with instructors or students (i.e. having a teacher you can't stand or being in a class of kids who don't want to learn). However, CLEP/DSST/etc. is perfect, because I invest the time to learn a subject and all the test provides is a yardstick that measures whether or not I've learned the material.

There are some courses I've taken for my degree that I've passed but will forget most of what I've learned. These courses just didn't interest me (e.g. sociology). On the other hand, there are courses I've taken that I didn't think would interest me but that I enjoyed (e.g. learning poetry for A&I Lit.) and this knowledge will stick with me and is now part of me. This would have been the same outcome if I had taken the course in a classroom or by studying on my own. However, an exceptional teacher might have sparked my interest in a course like sociology, but then again, a great book I read on my own could have done the same. I've also tended to have more lousy teachers than great teachers, and it is a lot easier to switch to a new book than it is to switch teachers.

So the bottom line is that I strongly disagree with the person who thinks that taking CLEP/DSST/etc. exams is inferior to learning in a traditional classroom environment. I believe that REAL learning occurs when you are an active participant in the learning process. You can skate by in a classroom environment, and you cram and pass a CLEP test, but just passing isn't learning. Real learning isn't dependent on a classroom and a teacher, nor is it found in a CLEP test, but it comes from effort that you put in to learn a subject.

[EI2HCB]

Here is an example. I recently took US History 1 CLEP as an immigrant to the USA I didn't know half of the information before I started but I certainly retained it over the past few weeks. meanwhile I took a marketing class at Strayer University got an A grade but hardly remember a thing that was in that class. It all depends on interest I enjoyed the history of my new nation. I had no interest in the latino demographic compared to the African American demographic I sell a window cleaning service to homeowner who can afford my services in my town only.

[UptonSinclair]

Unless a person can back such a bold claim up with evidence, it is simply opinion. I would not be surprised is this person has an advanced degree in one of the humanities. I am amazed by those who believe you can gain more sitting in a 200 person lecture hall than you can sitting in front of a youtube video of a lecture covering the same material. The greatest benefit I gain from CLEP and DSST is the ability to seek out high quality instruction rather than being stuck with whatever quality the local college system has to offer. I studied US History at Yale for $34 per credit.

[Imran520]

A student should to easily sitting in the class. And also take care of environment of class.

[SoliDeoGloria]

I agree with the posts on this thread. If I am interested in a particular subject, I tend to remember it much better than something I am just trying to get through because it is required. There are certainly advantages and disadvantages to both sides.

In a classroom setting, you get to work with other people, you have deadlines you have to meet (which is helpful if you tend to put things off ), and you have a teacher that can answer your questions.

Testing out of classes is a great option if you are very self-motivated and like to create your own schedule. It teaches responsibility, research skills, and gives you the chance to have more control of your own education. If there is a subject you are really interested in, you can spend more time on it. Or if there is a subject you greatly dislike, you can just try to pass the test . And CBEs save a LOT of money!

I have also found that when I have to research the information for myself, rather than a teacher handing me everything that I need to study, I tend to remember it much better and longer. When I have put a lot of time and work into something, it also is much more satisfying when I actually accomplish it.

[UptonSinclair]

I believe much of the problem stems from the tendency of educators to classify all students in the same category. As a 43 year old, I have a far different learning style than a 19 year old kid. Because I am at the empty nest phase of my life, I have the time to obsess over a single subject for hours daily. This single focus allows me to cover material much faster than a young adult taking several classes while dealing with a life of changes ahead of them.

The biggest challenge to non-traditional education is educators that fear for their jobs. Their job security needs tend to impede the evolution of education that should be a natural result of technology advances.

[Lindagerr]

As a visual learner I find it hard to learn things in a lecture. My mind wanders I don't pay attention and I waste a lot of time listening to a lecture I then have no memory of. When I read a book or sit on the computer looking things up I learn more. Even with math I need to learn it by both seeing and doing, I can't just listen and watch someone else do the problem. In one of my jobs my boss tryed to teach me how to do something by watching him and listen to what he said. He was getting frustrated because I wasn't learning even after three or four demonstrations, finally I said let me write down each step as we go along that way I get the tactile learning from the writing then I can use my notes to do the visual learning. He was surprised at how fast I learned new things doing it that way, he was an oral learner. As a teacher who works with special ed students a lot I have learned that if a student doesn't learn it the first time teach it a different way the second time and the third time; one of those times you will find that child's learning style.

I have attended in seat classes for all of my chemistry lab courses I had some great teachers who made things more understandable with the labs. In my junior year of high school (an eon ago) I took chemistry because I had to have it for nursing school. My teacher was boring and spoke in a monotone, I learned nothing I could not even understand balancing an equation. I finally dropped that course because I didn't want the bad grade. I took chemistry again Senior year and I had a great teacher who made the subject exciting, I learned and it was easy. So the teacher can make a difference.

I also am in my empty nest (I wish) stage of life, I find I don't have the patience to sit in a class and learn with the average student, I want to cut to the chase. Most of the subjects I took CLEP etc. for I already knew something about others I had to start from scratch. I retain the info I find interesting and even spend time going onto them deeper, the subjects that bore me stay in my head only long enough to pass the test.

[Maniac Craniac]

Taking a CLEP most definitely is the easy way out. So? There's nothing wrong with taking a shortcut that doesn't break the rules and leads to the same destination. Frank discussion of the matter is difficult since so many people believe that their degrees are a key aspect of their personal identities. For me, it's a means to an end.

If on your dying day, someone asks you to reflect upon your education and the thought that enters your mind is a four-year block of time that began 5 decades ago, then as far as I'm concerned, you are a poor unfortunate soul who spent your last 46 years doing nothing more than waiting to die. Education is not something you can expect from a classroom. It is something you must expect from yourself.