Opinions Please!

[snazzlefrag]

I am not talking about regionally accredited, everyone and their mother is regionally accredited. I am talking about the actual program accreditation. This is what the admissions and even employers look at.

Spazz,

In my experience, the vast majority of graduate admissions departments and employers require only that the undergraduate degree be "Regionally Accredited". Obviously, they may also specify that your UG degree must be in a certain subject related to your desired graduate course of study or intended occupation, but that's different from the accreditation issue.

Profession-specific and/or program-specific accreditation does seem to acquire much greater significance at the graduate level in certain cases, but at the undergraduate level...not so much!

You have suggested that, since "everyone and their mother is regionally accredited", admissions and employers look at actual program accreditation rather than regional accreditation. You seem to infer that this is the norm for graduate school admission. Can you provide us with some examples of graduate schools that require a more specific accreditation than regional in order to gain admission to their master's program?

It will be interesting to see which schools you are referring to. I am sure that the examples you provide to support your statement will also be of great help to Johanna as she weighs up the pros and cons.

Thanks in advance,
Snazzlefrag

[snazzlefrag]

But they had to come across sometime because of the demand from the body to get rid of these bullshit classes.

Spazz,

Once again, you are taking a reasonable discussion and responding in an entirely unnecessary, inappropriate, and offensive way.

As you are fully aware, this is a forum dedicated to the peer support of those who are earning a Distance Learning degree and, more specifically, those who are testing out via CLEP/DANTES/ECE exams.

The ONLY reason I can imagine for you to be here, and to be calling DL classes "bullshit classes" is to intentionally offend others and stir up trouble.

You are welcome here Spazz and you are, of course, permitted to express your opinions. However, in posting to this board, you MUST be respectful, considerate, and attentive to the particular environment you are in. That's just plain common sense.

If you insist on responding to legitimate and rational posts with crude and base comments, you will rapidly and surely outstay your welcome.

If you would like to continue to participate in respectful, courteous, supportive, and well-reasoned discussion of the various issues related to distance learning and testing out; and if you have something positive and beneficial to offer the Instantcert community, then by all means stay. But if your intention is to constantly and repeatedly cheapen the hardwork, dilligence, and fortitude of our members; and outright dismiss the fundamental legitimacy of their endeavors and successes, then you will almost certainly find a more sympathetic ear in an anti-DL forum.

We neither need, nor want trolls here! And you, sir, are looking a lot like a troll right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

I have a Troll Button, and I am not afraid to use it.

You have been warned,
Snazzlefrag

[dhlvrsn]

Hopefully that is through. Back to the original question. Is part of the evaluation economic? If so there is no more efficient way to get those 40+ credits and a degree than a school like Excelsior or TESC. By the time you factor in enrollment, grad and what not it's just over $70/credit for you.

I chose this route for a couple of reasons. I thought that I could actually study a class at a time and knock out these tests. When attending a traditional school I took Micro and Macro economics from two different instructors. One followed a traditional approach with numerous papers, assignments all based on her lectures. There was a "recommended" text but she often contradicted it and in the end her info is what counted. Oh and NO recorders allowed in class... For the other instructor all final grades were based on two multiple choice exams and the infomation was well laid out in an outline.

Not only did I do better in the multiple choice class I also learned a lot more. (That is my only wish with DANTES and CLEP is that the outline were a little more specific.)

Poke around on the board a little. You'll find everything from people like me with a LONG way to go to people in your situation were you've got a lot done and just need to reach the finish line.

As Snazzlefrag has pointed out an undergrad degree is really pretty generic. There are some specific jobs that require specific degrees but many just look at a degree and experience.

Good Luck which ever path you choose!

[snazzlefrag]

I realize that this is a subjective question, but I would like to throw it out there anyway in case some of you have some imput - I need a BA/BS only to be able to get into graduate school (social work). So what I would like some opinions on is whether it is safe to just go with a completely external degree (like Excelsior) or whether it would be better to transfer 78-80 credits to a 'degree completion' kind of program that would give me a BA in Human Resource Mgmt after I put in my 44 odd credit hours worth of work that is their minimum required number to graduate from them. Any thoughts? How will my state university (OSU) graduate school regard an Excelsior degree versus a degree at least partially earned in actual classes?

Johanna,

If you do decide to go with Excelsior, you might want to consider completing a BA in Psychology rather than HRM. The knowledge you gain in your Psych undergrad would blend very nicely with your MSW work. Of course, if OSU will accept any undegraduate degree, then you could just go for a general Liberal Arts degree, or the HRM as you mentioned. But I think Psychology would be a great degree to pair up with an MSW.

Just an idea for you to consider.

Best of luck...whatever you decide,
Snazzlefrag

[spazz]

Spazz,

Once again, you are taking a reasonable discussion and responding in an entirely unnecessary, inappropriate, and offensive way.

As you are fully aware, this is a forum dedicated to the peer support of those who are earning a Distance Learning degree and, more specifically, those who are testing out via CLEP/DANTES/ECE exams.

The ONLY reason I can imagine for you to be here, and to be calling DL classes "bullshit classes" is to intentionally offend others and stir up trouble.

You are welcome here Spazz and you are, of course, permitted to express your opinions. However, in posting to this board, you MUST be respectful, considerate, and attentive to the particular environment you are in. That's just plain common sense.

If you insist on responding to legitimate and rational posts with crude and base comments, you will rapidly and surely outstay your welcome.

If you would like to continue to participate in respectful, courteous, supportive, and well-reasoned discussion of the various issues related to distance learning and testing out; and if you have something positive and beneficial to offer the Instantcert community, then by all means stay. But if your intention is to constantly and repeatedly cheapen the hardwork, dilligence, and fortitude of our members; and outright dismiss the fundamental legitimacy of their endeavors and successes, then you will almost certainly find a more sympathetic ear in an anti-DL forum.

We neither need, nor want trolls here! And you, sir, are looking a lot like a troll right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

I have a Troll Button, and I am not afraid to use it.

You have been warned,
Snazzlefrag

I am sorry you took it that way. When I said bullshit classes I was referring to the online classes these schools offer. Obviously they are bullshit classes that just repeat what you should of learned in highschool. That is how american college/uni is setup because of the lack of quality of our actual highschool. What I meant by that is these schools do not offer any of your major requirements, they simply offer "bullshit" classes. The classes people do not like to take because they have nothing to do with their major. Hope this clears it up!

To answer your other question, I believe it is universally accepted. No matter what college you look at, it will come into play.

I am simply just trying to help Johanna with more rational opinions then this board provides her from actual experience. It seems like everytime I disagree with someone on an issue, I am threatened to be banned from this board. If you do not want me to voice my opinion and help others, then simply tell me. But do not ask for my opinion and say its welcome, and then get mad when I give it to you.

[SimonTam]

Hi,

In answer to the original question of this thread, I agree that the best course of action is to choose which Masters program you want to attend and then ask them directly. If they accept the Excelsior degree, then you have no problems (get the answer in writing on school letterhead). If not, complete 60% to 70% of it by tests and then transfer into a B&M school.

Now, on to the sub-topic...I believe what spazz meant by "bullshit" classes was not that they aren't college level but the typical liberal arts classes that all BA/BS degree students have to take. I do not believe that in this instance, spazz was denigrating online courses. These classes do reinforce and expand upon the learning received during a student's highschool and earlier learning. These classes are intended to make a student an intellectually well-rounded person, but usually have no application to the actual degree. I don't mean that they are never used. For example, a class in sociology will help a business student in understanding a foreign culture.

It is true that Ivy League schools have been slow to embrace on-line learning.
However, that is slowly changing. Harvard currently offers many courses online but not complete degrees. Princeton, Yale and Stanford also offer courses online. Administrators and faculty from Princeton, Yale and Stanford have met to discuss establishing a broader online program in early 2000 and even invested $50 million in the project. Unfortunately, it appears that effort has stalled. I currently cannot find any additional information on those three schools offering online degrees. But, Columbia University (an Ivy League school), currently offers several Masters degree programs completely online. (See this article: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/news/02/09/cv...orbes.html and the Columbia Continuing Education website: http://www.ce.columbia.edu/index.cfm)

Also, it was true in the past that on-line learning was looked down upon. However, that is quickly changing. I read an article recently (can't find the link right now) about a survey of employers on a broad range of topics. One topic was the source of the education of a prospective employee. 85% of those surveyed said that they would treat an online degree from an accredited institution the same as a traditional degree. Basically, at this time, you may meet someone who discriminates against an online degree, but those instances are becoming fewer and fewer. There may still be some discrimination in academia about online degrees, but that should change in the near future as well. Many state and private institutions are increasing the number of programs offered online. The following link is a page showing a great many of the degrees and certificates available online through Florida schools (both public and private).

http://www.distancelearn.org/degreeOptions.cfm

Many of the B&M institutions are starting online programs with graduate degrees. The Columbia example earlier is just one. University of Southern California (USC) also currently offers over 30 Masters of Science degree programs entirely online.

BTW, Excelsior is regionally accredited and also has individual programs that are accredited. For example, the Nursing program is accredited by National League for Nursing Accrediting Commission (NLNAC) which is recognized by the CHEA and the U.S. Secretary for Education. The Electronics Engineering and Nuclear Engineering degree programs are accredited by Technology Accreditation Committee (TAC) of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology(ABET). Most, not all, B&M schools are regionally accredited. However, most of the online institutions are either accredited by an agency not approved by CHEA or are Nationally Accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC).

The online schools that are accredited by an agency not approved by CHEA are in most instances, degree mills. Which means those degrees are close to useless.

Nationally accredited schools by the DETC, gain a higher acceptance than the degree mills, but there is probably still a significant prejudice against these schools.

Regionally accredited schools are the standard. In order to receive funding from states, public schools must be regionally accredited. Private schools also maintain this accreditation. Certain programs offered by a school may also be accredited by a specific organization. For example, ABET offers accreditation of Engineering and Technology programs. However, not all programs will have an accreditation committee or agency to accredit them.

Hope this helps,

[SimonTam]

Hi Johanna,

I just reread your post. Since you are planning to go to OSU for your Masters. Why not get your undergrad degree from OSU? They offer a Bachelors in General Business completely online. I'm not recommending that you get a Business degree. You should discuss that with an academic advisor at OSU. However, you could complete a large portion of an undergrad degree at OSU that is specialized for entrance to the Masters program online and then finish it with on-campus courses and OSU tests. Then you wouldn't have to worry about that pesky residency requirement.

[snazzlefrag]

I am sorry you took it that way. When I said bullshit classes I was referring to the online classes these schools offer. Obviously they are bullshit classes that just repeat what you should of learned in highschool. That is how american college/uni is setup because of the lack of quality of our actual highschool. What I meant by that is these schools do not offer any of your major requirements, they simply offer "bullshit" classes. The classes people do not like to take because they have nothing to do with their major. Hope this clears it up!

To answer your other question, I believe it is universally accepted. No matter what college you look at, it will come into play.

I am simply just trying to help Johanna with more rational opinions then this board provides her from actual experience. It seems like everytime I disagree with someone on an issue, I am threatened to be banned from this board. If you do not want me to voice my opinion and help others, then simply tell me. But do not ask for my opinion and say its welcome, and then get mad when I give it to you.

Spazz,

You are right, I did misinterpret what you were referring to when you said "bullshit classes". For that, I apologise.

As far as I can see, this is the first time I have mentioned that you will be banned if you continue to denegrate the method of learning and the means of earning a degree that is so fundamental to the members of this board. And it is only the second time you have been threatened with being banned, overall.

I have reviewed all your posts, and there is a clear pattern of trollish behavior. We understand that you are anti-distance-learning and anti-testing-out. You have made it very clear.

So now, acknowledging that you have a fundamentally different point of view, your goal should be to figure out a way that you can amicably participate here on this pro-distance-learning and pro-testing-out forum. If you can get past your inherent bias against the above, and post comments that do not alienate the rest of the members by constantly opposing the very foundation of all that this board stands for, you will be able to stay. If not, you will be removed. We are all WAY too busy succeeding and achieving our goals to have to CONTINUALLY defend our choices in every thread in which you participate.

The members of this board are not stupid or naive. We have carefully evaluated and researched our chosen method of earning our degrees and are satisfied that testing out through Excelsior/TESC/COSC etc., IS a legitimate, useful, worthwhile, and appropriate means of doing it. You disagree, and that's your prerogative. But you are going to have to agree to disagree with us if you are EVER going to be able to discuss anything without constant conflict. You have made your point, now move on.

The remainder of my earlier post still stands:

If you would like to continue to participate in respectful, courteous, supportive, and well-reasoned discussion of the various issues related to distance learning and testing out; and if you have something positive and beneficial to offer the Instantcert community, then by all means stay. But if your intention is to constantly and repeatedly cheapen the hardwork, dilligence, and fortitude of our members; and outright dismiss the fundamental legitimacy of their endeavors and successes, then you will almost certainly find a more sympathetic ear in an anti-DL forum.

So yes, I am threatening to ban you if you insist on continuing to oppose the fundamental purpose of this board. We are here to give and receive support and encouragement from our peers. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be here.

Your opinion IS welcome, as long as it doesn't continually undermine and alienate the other members of this board.

Playing the innocent, misunderstood victim will not cut it. Stop behaving like a troll, and you will be in absolutely no further danger of being banned.

I apologise to you Johanna for hashing this out on your thread. But it needed to be done!

Thanks,
Snazzlefrag

[spazz]

You are the one who made it into something it is not. I simply posted and gave my opinion to this nice young lady. Then you blasted back, telling me how I was wrong and this and that, etc. Since you obviously cannot handle the truth or my opinion, I will stop posting my opinion for your sake and mine.

[pugman]

SimonTam,

To clarify, Harvard's ALM-IT is entirely online except for 1 class (summer session). 9 online, 1 in residence.

I think it's a great program - but very time consuming (I avg 15-20 hours a week per class).

Greg