Nearly half of master degree programs have no ROI

[sanantone]

https://freopp.org/does-college-pay-off-...3b9cb6ddc5

[NotJoeBiden]

Not everyone gets a graduate degree simply to make more money. A great example is in research and academia where masters and doctorates are pretty much required, but salaries are not necessarily higher than they might make with a bachelors in industry with years experience. Just look at tech companies and how much they pay. Or MD PhDs who get multiple degrees, but dont necessarily make more than someone with just an MD.

[davewill]

Not everyone gets a graduate degree simply to make more money. A great example is in research and academia where masters and doctorates are pretty much required, but salaries are not necessarily higher than they might make with a bachelors in industry with years experience. Just look at tech companies and how much they pay. Or MD PhDs who get multiple degrees, but dont necessarily make more than someone with just an MD.

Sure, although those students should know what they are getting for their effort rather than relying on a vague notion that a degree will mean a better career. Knowing the ROI is only one input to the decision process.

The article actually does a decent job of addressing those subtleties. The author also mentions that your average college grad likely would have earned more that the average high school grad even if they had not gone to college, just because of demographic and aptitude differences.

You can see that in action in the forum, where we see a lot of professionals without degrees who have been doing fine, but now find the desire to go back and cross that "T".

Perhaps the most useful part of this ROI calculation comes from the comparisons of the same majors at different schools. The example they give of CalPoly's fine and studio arts program's high ROI vs. that at other schools is interesting:

The same logic holds for traditionally low-paying majors. Some institutions buck the trend. The fine and studio arts program at California Polytechnic State University has an ROI of $785,000, thanks to its high starting salaries and relatively affordable tuition. Students interested in fields with low average pay can still find some schools that do well transforming those fields of study into high-paying careers.

[nykorn]

My Associate's and Bachelor's have never gotten me jobs in the field nor any kind of pay bracket bump, but it is my Master's that is going to get me a guaranteed full time job.

In my family, I was not allowed to get my first job until after 2 years of college! My parents said work would distract me from performing well in school. So I had to choose a college major before I had any experience of working life or what was in demand of the workforce. High school and my parents didn't teach me a thing about the actual workforce or employability. What little was on the internet was propaganda, inflating the amount of jobs there were in the field as well as the pay for it. Stuff like Reddit didn't yet exist. The colleges itself also inflated all the degrees I got, claiming the subjects I studied were somehow a huge step up for you career-wise. Finally, with the advance of technology and globalization, the job market had completely changed between the time I was in high school and the time I graduated from college, and my college professors were telling students it was impossible to join the workforce in the careers they themselves had held in this subject for 20 years prior.

I don't know if this will get worse with the current generations or not. So many people are getting told to "live their best life" and do exactly what they want to do and have an interest in. That is what got me into this mess - dreams (in my case, Japanese) don't put food on the table. On the other hand, there is tons more info online these days about what degrees are actually employable, as well as so many alternative ways to quickly and cheaply complete a degree as well as study remedial materials (for if you, say, majored in English and now want to major in Chemistry), that it no longer costs the same as a house just to get a Bachelor's and you can "easily" get another one if you "mess up".

I wish colleges were honest and there was some kind of graph of which degrees actually got people a job in their field from 1 year prior to, to 1 year after, graduation. What you often see is "jobs you can get with this degree", which is kind of like a daydream list, and sometimes "students who are employed", which may as well be a guy with a Master's in Bioengineering being employed at McDonald's.

"Around a third of federal Pell Grant and student loan funding pays for programs that do not provide students with a return on investment."

What if we only give Pell Grants to students who are studying certain in-demand fields with good ROIs. Also give it to them for if they are taking official college courses in remedial studies heading towards one of those in-demand fields. Heavily advertise it and explain why it is so. Suddenly you will have a lot of people studying stuff they otherwise wouldn't, just because "well my Bachelor's is free". The alternative is some kind of government incentive to open up the job market and somehow keep giving people with these "no ROI" degrees jobs. As an example, in the Nordics, opera singers also get work as voice actors for cartoons, they don't go to a separate voice acting school. Or give people who graduate with one of these degrees, and who create a solid business plan vetted by professionals, a big grant to start a business in their field.

With my Japanese Bachelor's, the FEW jobs that are left you can MAYBE get with it, is customer service representation for tour guide companies, videogame companies and at major airports, and a "World Language" public school teacher. That is, if you're lucky and they aren't demanding that you be a native speaker. So with this in consideration, the degree should look at the job market and decide to be 100% focused on customer service Japanese - which no, we did not get taught.

[Tireman4]

Well, from my perspective, I knew my MA in History would not get me a job. When I graduated with it in hand, I went back to my job at Avis cleaning cars. I also knew my PhD in History would not get me a job. I knew it was to finish what I started in 1993. Now, my MLS ( Master of Library Science) degree is what pays the bills. That one I knew I would earn the most money and it has.

[bluebooger]

... A great example is in research and academia where masters and doctorates are pretty much required,...

the point is they are required

     
so if you want a job teaching or doing research then getting a job is a ROI     
even if it doesn't pay an enormous amount of money            
you have the job you were hoping for

so if you want to teach English Literature or French Poetry at a community college then a masters degree n those subjects is completely worth it   

but if you're getting a degree in those subjects just because you want a degree or just because you're interested in those subjects then you're wasting time and money  
buy some books, watch some videos, save 1000s of dollars and get basically the same education

[resistk]

https://freopp.org/does-college-pay-off-...3b9cb6ddc5

I'd question the methodology.  It is PhDs that have a negative ROI given the lack of tenure positions and years spent obtaining the degree that impair earnings.

[NotJoeBiden]

https://freopp.org/does-college-pay-off-...3b9cb6ddc5

I'd question the methodology.  It is PhDs that have a negative ROI given the lack of tenure positions and years spent obtaining the degree that impair earnings.

What is your methodology to come up with this conclusion?


-
Joe the engineer

[Heartstrings]

I think it depends on how you define ROI. I work in a field that doesn't pay a lot of money but I have experience in working in positions that require advanced education. The state requires I have advanced education to do my job. I know some people who are volunteer board members who make some very important decisions regarding the non profit but are not paid but need that expertise of advanced esucation and experience to make those decisions.Plus alot places it is a lot about who you know and networking. I think it depends on how you define ROI.