My definition of conservative

[Ruddigore]

Personal responsibility, limited government, individual liberty, strong national defense, traditional values, free markets.

Beautiful. Thank you for making my day.

What are you talking about? Because you round up a posse of conservatives, some of who probably aren't old enough to pay taxes, you got the market cornered? Take a look at the news, any news, even your conservative TV and look at Prez Obama's approval rating.

The taxes argument would be much better leveled at democrats and liberals -- usually the party that is responsible for tax increases. Regardless, whether someone pays taxes does not eliminate his ability appreciate freedom, et al.

I keep up with the news quite regularly. I see much in it to cause me to shun liberalism. As for Obama's ratings, give them a year or two. "Time and his sickle the weeds may prune!"

[Levi]

Winston Churchill:

"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law."

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

"There is no such thing as a good tax."

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

[Gary]

I was just walking by and noticed a sign in the window that said OPEN, so I thought I might drop in. I'm looking for a pin for my lapel. One that looks like this >>> [ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]. You wouldn't by chance have one, would you? I might also like a set of matching cuff links as well. I am interested in purchasing a plate or platter with a logo engraved. We will be using it as a serving dish at the many parties we will be throwing over the next 8 years. I have attached the logo >>>
  Less than 1 minute ago">elephant.jpg (Size: 4.72 KB / Downloads: 63) . I will be paying by credit card, it's been a long time since we've been able to say that, ey? By the way, haven't you heard, elephants are on the endangered species list. Nice place ya got here. Quite the conservative touch. May I make a suggestion? You might want to replace the crystal chandeliers with energy efficient lighting. Well, I gotta go, one of my favorite shows is coming on. It's about some good people who try to help out poor and middle class folks, like you & me...... well, like me. It's called The West Wing. G'day

[Farmerboy]

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[Ruddigore]

I'm with Farmerboy: ?????????????????????????

But concerning Levi's quotes...

"There is no such thing as a good tax."

...I have naught to say but Amen.

[Gary]

I'm with you???????????????????????????????????

[Gary]

  Less than 1 minute ago">avatar_1500.gif (Size: 9.55 KB / Downloads: 59) I just can't get through to you. I've got a Grad certificate to get so I'm done again. I know quite a few will be glad. My goal never was to be Mr. Congeniality or Most Popular. I will be respectful, but I will not cower to you. I am quite surprised at the number of people ON HERE who are happy w/the way things are going and who got us here. Thankfully we have the 65 percenters who are wise to the ways of America. Plus we have those other 10-15 percenters who are on the fence, so we have hope. Good riddance to the last 8 years, where the evils of greed have reared their ugly head in many ways. If you like the way the future was looking for your children, then you must be loaded (financially or otherwise). If your working and feel relatively safe with your job, I can see how all this pork spending would bother you. If your like many who are standing in lines, with little pride or hope left, you probably would feel otherwise. Just remember, who got us here. Dubya and his cronies made out real well. Halliburton screwed the american public, thanks directly to Cheney. You can say what you want, those are the facts ladies and gentleman. In the meantime, certain elements are making the ultimate sacrifice. Leadership in this country sent our forces into a country to fight a war that shouldn't have been fought in the first place and for a multitude of reasons that seemed to change monthly. There's more and it isn't just under conservative regimes.
* The average compensation of a CEO in 1980 was about 40 times that of the average worker in his company. Today it is more than 500 times! If your pay had kept up with his, you would be making more than $200,000 this year. * In 1979 the American worker's average hourly wage was equal to $15.91 (adjusted for inflation in 2001 dollars). By 1989 it had reached only $16.63/hour. That's a gain of only 7 cents a year for the entire Reagan decade. By 1995 it had risen to only $16.71, or virtually no gain whatsoever over the 6years between 1989 and 1995. During the great 'boom years' between 1995 and 2000 it rose briefly to $18.33 per hour. In other words, from 1979 to 2000, even before the most recent Bush recession, after more than two decades the American worker's average wages increased on average only 11.5 cents per hour per year! With nearly all of that coming in the five so-called 'boom' years of 1995-2000, and most of that lost once again in the last three years. And that includes for all workers, even those with college degrees. The picture is worse for workers who had no college degree. That's more than 100 million workers, or 72.1% of the workforce. For them there was no 'boom of 1995-2000' whatsoever. Their average real hourly wages were less at the end of 2000 than they were in 1979! And since 2000 their wages have continued to slide further.
* Production has increased 40% in the last 25 yrs and real wages have gone down for those w/degrees and have risen modestly for those w/college degrees.
* CEO's and exec compensation rose, well let's say quite abundantly.
* Real average hourly ages of more than 100 million of American workers' are less today than 25 years ago; real wages of college educated workers have risen only modestly in the late 1990s and fallen since under Bush II; and real wages of the 10 million lowest paid workers have declined more than 21%.
* While the American worker and family are working harder, with longer hours, and higher production, they are still falling further behind, the American CEO is 500 times better off since Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II.

Now that is not a description you will find at Wikipedia or an encyclopedia. And in fairness, some bad has happened during the liberal years but not like the others. You can descibe conservatism however you like, results speak louder than words. A Free market, left alone, w/no regulation will only continue to get worse for the average american. Greed is and always will be the defining factor. You won't see that in any description of conservatism. If it walks like a duck......... Actually, if all you conservative backers aren't making $200,000.00 a yr, I would find it interesting how you have become such ardent supporters. I actually never had a problem per se with the definition of conservatism OR liberalism. Both seem to have their good points. But the facts speak louder than words and I for one will not let myself be drawn in by a party that so desperately wants and needs the middle class. Remember when "family values " was one of the big draws? Whatever happened to that? We know but we won't go there. You continue to hang with the cronies because they need you and they need you more than ever. After all, w/out your support, who will they have to screw? Keep those cards and letters coming, I read every one of them. It's time to prep for my grad certificate, wish me well :> What really sucks is that w/out me, who are you going to rag on? After all, we all like a good scrap. I just dust myself off, and continue on my way.

[CLEP101]

Gary,
I thought you said earlier that you were an "Independent Thinker". Where's all this liberalism that's flowing out of you coming from? Please stay away from the Koolaid, it's for your own well being. You'll be a happier person. You're always upset for some reason.

[Ruddigore]

You can descibe conservatism however you like, results speak louder than words. A Free market, left alone, w/no regulation will only continue to get worse for the average american. Greed is and always will be the defining factor. You won't see that in any description of conservatism.

We could argue about how the free market actually bridles greed to a great extent, but I will content myself in pointing out that the free market, left alone, with no regulation has not been tried recently. Bush's administration has been, if anything, too liberal economically.

Maybe someday you'll penetrate our heads and explain why being rich is evil. (I'm not rich. ... Were those numbers inflation adjusted?)

[dc67]

At what point will it quit being Bush's fault? At what point does Obama have to accept responsibility for his bad decisions? If/when things turn around, he'll be glad to accept credit without ever accepting any blame. I wish I could live that way.....

Good luck on your grad degree Gary!!!!!

Doug