My definition of conservative

[Levi]

My primary goal on this forum is not to make political converts.

I am convinced that the answer this country needs is NOT a surge of conservatism per se. Let's be clear: I am a Christian. I believe that the only hope our nation has is for the Gospel to be preached and for a mighty revival to sweep over the land. Nothing less than this will effect any lasting change. Simply making political converts without making spiritual converts will not last for more than a generation.

You see, the nature of the problem in our country is not intellectual, but moral or spiritual. Do you know what truly changes a person's heart? Not airtight intellectual arguments, but the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.

I could argue until I am blue in the face, and not change anybody's mind. That's all right. I don't know everything, and I certainly make mistakes. I don't want to argue for the sake of arguing.

You may call me a religious wacko or an intolerant nutcase. I don't really care. This is what I believe, and I thought it would be fair for everyone to know where I'm coming from.

[a4tunatemom]

Levi,

I agree. I don't think you are a wacko. : )


Danielle

[cdautel]

I am convinced that the answer this country needs is NOT a surge of conservatism per se. Let's be clear: I am a Christian. I believe that the only hope our nation has is for the Gospel to be preached and for a mighty revival to sweep over the land. Nothing less than this will effect any lasting change. Simply making political converts without making spiritual converts will not last for more than a generation.

You see, the nature of the problem in our country is not intellectual, but moral or spiritual. Do you know what truly changes a person's heart? Not airtight intellectual arguments, but the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.

You may call me a religious wacko or an intolerant nutcase. I don't really care. This is what I believe, and I thought it would be fair for everyone to know where I'm coming from.

Ditto. Mega dittos. I couldn't have said it any better. What this country needs is a spiritual and moral revival before any true change can ever take place.

[Gary]

Spiritual and moral revival is good. But who is going to lead. What religion does everyone follow? What confuses me is how all the conservatives on here claim strong religious ties, and I always thought one of the tenents of religion was love towards fellow people. Conservatism in my estimation goes against the grain of that, it leaves behind the unfortunate. PTSD, bipolar, retardation and other maladies and mental health issues exist, dollars are needed for these programs, should gov't shell out money for these "social " programs? Conservatives are not fond of these issues, I believe they want to ignore the obvious. To those who truly are religious, I have no problem w/you. Unfortunately, the number of frauds and perverts in the religious community is excessive by any measure. While many have done excellent work for their communities and charities, I would never trust any of them to school my kids. I wouldn't leave them alone w/them while we are on the subject. Seriously, can you blame me? How can you not look at what has happened w/the Catholic church and it continues today and not understand why people feel this way? The priest who consoled my brother when his 16 yr old son died was a help in needed times..........and then he was found guilty of molestation. NO MORE CHANCES. The church has placed itself in this position. My father-in-law's Episcopalian church in Pennsylvania placed a priest in charge who was alcoholic and slipped back into his addiction while there. I know they are human, but how can you place YOUR TRUST and belief in these people? Can't you just have goodness in your hearts and move on? The stories go on and on. If your a good person, why search for acceptance? Those are people, I believe, are susceptable to ministries of fraud. You know, sow your seed, give $1,000.00 and good things will come. Sorry, religion is not the aswer. Now the moral issue is a different thing. Dc67 started this thread saying he sees conservatism as personal responsibility, limited government, individual liberty, strong national defense, traditional values, free markets. I agree with him and traditional values covers the moral issue. The key to his comment where I think there has been a disconnect, a large one, is in free markets w/no gov't intervention. With no regulation, we will see this economic situation again. Your kidding yourself if you think not. To place our faith largely in the church/religion is not a cure. It may make you feel better, but it will not help out the unfortunates. My whole argument does not lie w/dc67's explanation, it is sound. Where I disagree is where the movement has gone. Power and greed has corrupted, left unchecked, it will doom us again. Earlier data is no indication of the future. Exponential growth, less natural resources, global warming, these are continually changing the way the game is being played. As experts have said, our existence, especially America's is relatively young. In a short time, we have seen the demise of traditonal pensions and possibly Social Security. Could we see a reversal? Maybe. But probably doubtful. We need regulation, gov't and independent (if that's possible). I for one try not to be pessimistic but I will never trust a free market again. I've always questioned it. As for religion, that's OK. It won't fix the world's problems, I can almost assure you of that.

[jwilson08]

My primary goal on this forum is not to make political converts.

I am convinced that the answer this country needs is NOT a surge of conservatism per se. Let's be clear: I am a Christian. I believe that the only hope our nation has is for the Gospel to be preached and for a mighty revival to sweep over the land. Nothing less than this will effect any lasting change. Simply making political converts without making spiritual converts will not last for more than a generation.

You see, the nature of the problem in our country is not intellectual, but moral or spiritual. Do you know what truly changes a person's heart? Not airtight intellectual arguments, but the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.

I could argue until I am blue in the face, and not change anybody's mind. That's all right. I don't know everything, and I certainly make mistakes. I don't want to argue for the sake of arguing.

You may call me a religious wacko or an intolerant nutcase. I don't really care. This is what I believe, and I thought it would be fair for everyone to know where I'm coming from.

I'm with you.

[jwilson08]

I know they are human, but how can you place YOUR TRUST and belief in these people?

I don't place my trust in people. That's plain ol' stupid. That's why i won't place my faith in a socialist government either, because it's run by humans. For that matter, i don't place my faith in any gov't...yet.

And NO ONE is perfect! I'm not, you're not, she's not, he's not...achieving perfection is pretty much hopeless from a human perspective. But, as a Christian, I believe that Christ's saving work in my life will perfect me until I die or He returns (let's hope that's soon!). But still, i am not perfect.

When Christ reigns-THAT will be the perfect government!

[Gary]

I can understand your stance. Unfortunately, I don't believe he reigns right now so until then, we must rid ourselves of the conservative movement THAT believes in free market w/no gov't interference. That way, when the Messiah comes again, he will be proud of the work we accomplished. Like Roy Buchanan said, and I quote;

just a smile, just a glance
the prince of darkness
he just walked past
there's been a lot of evil
there've been a lot of sayin'
but this time I'm gonna tell it my way:

There was a town
Strange, lonely little town, they called 'The World'
a lovely, lovely little town
'Till one day a stranger appeared
And their hearts rejoiced, and the sad little town was happy again
But there were some that doubted; they disbelieved, so they mocked him
And the stranger, he went away
Now the sad little town that was sad yesterday
is a lot sadder today...

I walked in a lot of places that he never should have been
But I know that the Messiah, he will come again

Trust me, if he came back today, I'd welcome him w/open arms.
Gentlemen, let's keep our fingers crossed.

[CLEP101]

Amen Gary! You said it.

GOD Bless President Obama and the USSA. (United Socialist States of America) I sure am glad he has apologized to the world for America and our way of life. It was about time some one did that. Screw those conservatives and their values.

[Gary]

You are correct, he has aplologized for our sins. We may be "The Greatest Show on Earth" but that does NOT give us the right to run the world. We had no need to go into Iraq. None. We are cutting ties to many of our allies. The world is changing, it's not afraid of our power like it used to be. Look at IED's, RPG's and suicide bombers just to name a few. Our technology cannot deal w/the most basic weapons. And, it can happen right here on American soil. We should have been focusing on the real terrorists in Afghanistan rather than attack a country we had issues with. We and the world would have been much better off and further along ridding ourself of the largest threat out there. Hawkish attitudes don't work anymore dude. I don't care if your a paratrooper, SEAL, domestic warrior or what have you, it doesn't qualify you as an expert on tactics or knowledgeable in world affairs. The "I dare you" mode only makes more enemies. In case you haven't realized, we rely on foreign oil not to mention many other valuable resources that we don't have. This is basic life 101, you didn't learn that in clep 101 did you? You see the world and think it will continue it's present course, you are sadly mistaken. Attack the world, tick them off, then ask for their resources. You seem to have the Chaney mentality, that is the most dangerous game to play in the world. This is not about being afraid of war, it is about picking and choosing your battles wisely. It's about keeping close ties to allies, America will look stronger in the eyes of many countries if we act with decency rather than aggression. Once this economy starts picking up, we will have the oil issue again and it will loom big. If by chance the Saudi monarchy were overthrown, it would present huge consequences for us. We need more friends, not enemies. And if by chance we are attacked tomorrow, it won't be because of O'Bama and it probably wouldn't be because of Bush (unless it's an angered family member who lost a loved one in Iraq), it's because we have radicals out there that just want us erased. Focus on that. Finally, nuclear proliferation is serious and we should be "all in" against it. If Iran continues working on the technology, if we don't take care of it, Israel will. Will that create a large problem? Probably but possibly not. Other Arab countries are afraid of that country almost as much as we are concerned. And you know what? Had we left Iraq alone, they were the check and balance of power over there. Do you really think Saddam would have let them have that technology? To throw another monkey wrench into the equation, now that the Sunni's are out of power and the Shi'ites rule Iraq, they have something in common w/Iran. Shi'ites rule there. How tidy. Did Cheney envision that? So maybe we do have something to be concerned about. And you know what, we can thank the Bush/Chaney legacy. Something else for you to swallow.....

"The Commerce Department approved at least $1.5 billion in exports with possible military applications from U.S. companies to Iraq, and the Agriculture Department administered a U.S.-goverment-guaranteed loan program that provided billions to Iraq. Thanks largely to the first George Bush, American taxpayers unwittingly co-signed for much of the loan money, and the government had to make good on these loans when Iraq later defaulted. Almost all of the transactions were legal under U.S. and international law at the time, even when the transactions either had direct military or dual-use (civilian and military) applications. Over and over again, the deals were encouraged and even abetted by the U.S. government, even after American officials had proof that Iraq was using chemical weapons to kill Iranian troops and subdue Kurdish uprisings. In fact, the Reagan administration and the first Bush administration even provided Hussein's regime with military intelligence during his bloody eight-year war with Iran."

Talk all you want about O'Bama, he hasn't even come close to creating these types of blunders. Give them our dollars, then attack them. Enough of all your silly negative O'Bama talk. Bush policies helped feed this economic crisis, and he most certainly made many enemies we didn't need. Now O'Bama will clean up the mess, and so far, he's doing a good job. Are you a rascist or a blind conservative? Know your facts. We don't need Hawks, we need dialogue.

[Gary]

By the way clep101, I forgot to tell you, you faulted last serve. See if you can get the next one in.