My definition of conservative

[Ruddigore]

Social decisions like this seem hard for youse guys to comprehend, but it is in keeping w/domestic tranquility.

If only it was!

We see executives breaking up companies, sending jobs overseas and bringing in H1-B visas along w/others, in quite a few cases destroying a business that has been in existence for years. Then they walk away w/large bonuses...

There. That's pretty close to an answer to my question. In this, I more or less agree with you. I heard a debate case recently that said raising the number of H1-B visas would increase the number of jobs in the country and thereby help Americans (and end outsourcing). I don't buy that.

[Gary]

NUTTY REPUBLICAN CONGRESSWOMAN MICHELLE BACHMAN SAYS "WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF RICH PEOPLE!". Minnesota, What were you thinking?????? Please correct this mess at the first opportune time. Another uppity.

[Gary]

The effects of the economic slowdown are being felt more in the black and hispanic communities. Since the recession began in December 2007, unemployment in the african-american population has risen to 13.4 percent. Hispanic unemployment has risen to 10.9 percent. That compares to seven point three percent for caucasians. Analysts say the disparity comes from the concentration in the workforce of blacks and hispanics in construction, blue collar and service industry jobs.Stop being lazy, get back to work, the wealthy are counting on YOU! Now, if you got into white collar jobs, you wouldn't have this problem.....What's that, you can't get into the Ivory Tower because they won't let you in? This is America, of course you can get in. Oh, you don't have the code.....That presents a problem.
Meanwhile, in the Ivory Tower, the champagne is flowing, the cigars are smoking and there is not a care in the world. This is where you want to be. Yes, it is an exclusive club and membership has it's privileges. Good times abound as the elitists think to themselves, "What a life, look at me, lazy, inconsiderate, arrogant and actually ignorant but thankfully no one is on to me. Waitress, bring me another drink!" Oh, we're on to you brother! Like snot on a tissue.

[Gary]

Rebelion. La última risa: las hipotecas <i>subprime</i> This may explain the fiasco a little better for anyone interested. Note where it starts......

[Chebasaz]

I've been following this debate for quite some time. Gary, besides the personal attacks (or insults if you'd prefer) you've started to make some really good arguments in the last few pages. Hats off for bringing a bit of logic to your position.

My question is pretty simple - Setting aside how you earned it; is someone making $200,000 a year always a bad thing? Or to put it another way.. Is there ever a "good" way to make $200,000?

[learflyer]

I've been following this debate for quite some time. Gary, besides the personal attacks (or insults if you'd prefer) you've started to make some really good arguments in the last few pages. Hats off for bringing a bit of logic to your position.

My question is pretty simple - Setting aside how you earned it; is someone making $200,000 a year always a bad thing? Or to put it another way.. Is there ever a "good" way to make $200,000?

So Gary thinks making $200,000 is a bad thing? Do you as well, Chebasaz? I bet you think that is what defines a rich person. Gary doesn't have a logical bone in his body. He claims he served his country........Hurts Gary, doesn't it? Just like i'm supposed to prove to you I know what's on route 9 near Siena? Us locals call it Loudon Rd.

[Chebasaz]

Lower the guns there Lear, it was just a question and I think you misread it. People get so riled up over this sort of thing. I'm not quite at the 200K mark, but I work my ass off in the hopes of one day getting there.

For me, money = options. I hate to come across as the materialistic bastard, but it is one of the important things in my life. I do have a problem with the government taking that money, but I understand the need for taxes in order to keep the country running. That's pretty much where I draw the line. If my money is getting taxed for infrastructure, i.e. roads, bridges, railways, sewer systems, police salaries, military.. that's all fine. If my money is getting taxed to allow someone not to work though, that's where I start having moral issues.

Our welfare system is broken. It does a lot of good for some people in need, but it also enables those that would rather not work, to continue not working. Our unemployment system isn't great, but at least it's better than the way welfare is run.

Our tax system is a mess, on both sides of the table and I speak from quite a few years of doing taxes professionally. It allows the wealthy to get out of paying taxes. The more money you have, the easier it is to get out of them. On the other side, the EIC and other "credits" out there allows people who pay no taxes to receive money from the rest of the taxpayers. In fact, it actually encourages irresponsible behavior and rewards it.

Socialism only works if everyone is held to the same standards of responsibility. Everyone must be on the same page in order to live in Marx's "From each according to his own ability, to each according to his need" perfect little world. The problem is that there are many who will not work unless forced to by their own empty stomachs. If the government continues to offer free handouts, where is the incentive to change that lifestyle?

My personal recipe for "Change" in our country -

1. Flat tax across the board, no credits, no deductions. Make it something reasonable.. like 20%. We would all come out ahead, as would the country.

2. Term limitations - One term, period. If you are elected to office, you get one term to do your best to fulfill your campaign promises. Once that term is over, the only way to get elected again is to be elected to a higher office. If you're a mayer, you can only be elected to something higher on the totem pole (governor, congress, ect). Perhaps this way the candidates will stop making insane promises to the people of this country, because they know their political career depends on actually fulfilling those promises. This will also flush out the career politicians.

3. Lobbying is now illegal. The population of DC just got halved, freeing up traffic and allowing our government to actually represent the people instead of the special interest groups.

4. Corporate responsibility is enforced by the government, with the penalties on par with China. CEO and CFO cooked the books? They're both tried (immediately) and thrown in a work camp rebuilding roads and digging ditches. Did their illegal actions cause a negative reaction in the market? Oops, you just affected national security. Death penalty for you! The government stays out of all other corporate business. It does not regulate, it only enforces responsible behavior for the public's best interest.

There's more, but that should get it started. Hope one of the President's aides is working on their master's and stops by.

[Farmerboy]

I really like your first three, I would need a bit clearer picture of how involved government would be for me to support number 4. I do agree with your example. Well thought out post and agree with it!

[Ruddigore]

1. Flat tax across the board, no credits, no deductions. Make it something reasonable.. like 20%. We would all come out ahead, as would the country.

2. Term limitations - One term, period. If you are elected to office, you get one term to do your best to fulfill your campaign promises. Once that term is over, the only way to get elected again is to be elected to a higher office. ... Perhaps this way the candidates will stop making insane promises to the people of this country, because they know their political career depends on actually fulfilling those promises. This will also flush out the career politicians.

3. Lobbying is now illegal. The population of DC just got halved, freeing up traffic and allowing our government to actually represent the people instead of the special interest groups.

4. Corporate responsibility is enforced by the government... It does not regulate, it only enforces responsible behavior for the public's best interest.

I definitely agree with the first three.

The flat tax would have to be implemented along with a major downsizing of government, however, since the flat tax doesn't bring in as much as the income tax unless it's at about 37%.

Perhaps a good compromise on 2. (one that might pass) would be to allow no consecutive terms. You have one term to fulfill your promises, then you have to either move up or stand back for a while.

[learflyer]

Lower the guns there Lear, it was just a question and I think you misread it. People get so riled up over this sort of thing. I'm not quite at the 200K mark, but I work my ass off in the hopes of one day getting there.

For me, money = options. I hate to come across as the materialistic bastard, but it is one of the important things in my life. I do have a problem with the government taking that money, but I understand the need for taxes in order to keep the country running. That's pretty much where I draw the line. If my money is getting taxed for infrastructure, i.e. roads, bridges, railways, sewer systems, police salaries, military.. that's all fine. If my money is getting taxed to allow someone not to work though, that's where I start having moral issues.

Our welfare system is broken. It does a lot of good for some people in need, but it also enables those that would rather not work, to continue not working. Our unemployment system isn't great, but at least it's better than the way welfare is run.

Our tax system is a mess, on both sides of the table and I speak from quite a few years of doing taxes professionally. It allows the wealthy to get out of paying taxes. The more money you have, the easier it is to get out of them. On the other side, the EIC and other "credits" out there allows people who pay no taxes to receive money from the rest of the taxpayers. In fact, it actually encourages irresponsible behavior and rewards it.

Socialism only works if everyone is held to the same standards of responsibility. Everyone must be on the same page in order to live in Marx's "From each according to his own ability, to each according to his need" perfect little world. The problem is that there are many who will not work unless forced to by their own empty stomachs. If the government continues to offer free handouts, where is the incentive to change that lifestyle?

My personal recipe for "Change" in our country -

1. Flat tax across the board, no credits, no deductions. Make it something reasonable.. like 20%. We would all come out ahead, as would the country.

2. Term limitations - One term, period. If you are elected to office, you get one term to do your best to fulfill your campaign promises. Once that term is over, the only way to get elected again is to be elected to a higher office. If you're a mayer, you can only be elected to something higher on the totem pole (governor, congress, ect). Perhaps this way the candidates will stop making insane promises to the people of this country, because they know their political career depends on actually fulfilling those promises. This will also flush out the career politicians.

3. Lobbying is now illegal. The population of DC just got halved, freeing up traffic and allowing our government to actually represent the people instead of the special interest groups.

4. Corporate responsibility is enforced by the government, with the penalties on par with China. CEO and CFO cooked the books? They're both tried (immediately) and thrown in a work camp rebuilding roads and digging ditches. Did their illegal actions cause a negative reaction in the market? Oops, you just affected national security. Death penalty for you! The government stays out of all other corporate business. It does not regulate, it only enforces responsible behavior for the public's best interest.

There's more, but that should get it started. Hope one of the President's aides is working on their master's and stops by.

Guns lowered, Chez. I agree with your post. I apologize to you but not to the internet bully who lives in his mom's basement. Before we were BOTH laid off (me in November, and my wife in Feb), we were in that salary range (combined). And I gotta tell ya.......it ain't much! Once you reach a certain tax bracket you're better off making less! I wish one of the two parties would get a candidate someday like Ron Paul who has the balls to implement a fair tax!