LawShelf.com Discussion

[shaas]

The introduction wasn't the best, but these do look like genuinely useful courses for some students. Assuming, of course, that TESU and/or EC accept them. It'd be great if we could get someone willing to guinea pig one or two courses to see if TESU/EC will accept them.

The exams are also open book.

If these are accepted, this could be an amazing resource for students who can't or don't want to use video proctoring for one reason or another.

I'm affiliated with LS (yes, and NPC... and Coopersmith... the 5 kids just don't keep me busy enough ), so let me clarify a few things discussed on the thread.

While NPC has been with NCCRS since 2013, LS really just got most of its credit recommendations recently. NCCRS backdates to the date of the application, which is why they say 6/21, but the lion's share of the recommendations were posted in December. It was a process; let's just leave it at that. 

EC, TESU and COSC are all on our radar of course. We met with EC yesterday. There's no doubt of their accepting LS credit (they accept NCCRS as a policy), but we're working on nailing down an equivalency chart, which I think will be very useful (it will take a few weeks to iron out, I'm sure).

We are absolutely also reaching out to the other 2: TESU to get some sort of equivalency chart and COSC to get an articulation. Obviously, we'll announce anything we get in that regard.

Regarding NPC, I wouldn't quite say the LS courses are the same as the NPC courses. NPC requires assignments, multiple exams and are months-long synchronous courses. NPC is not for EC-style degree-finishers. It's for people who want deliberate more traditional instructor-led classes. The content is also not exactly the same, though they're on the same basic level, of course. Obviously, cannibalization of potential NPC students is something we've given a lot of thought to, but we're not convinced there's a huge overlap of people who are looking for a traditional college training regimen to become a paralegal or prepare for law school and those looking for complete a TESU or EC type degree. It's important to note in this vein that NPC credits are not the same as LS credits and I agree that NPC being DEAC has no impact on LS.

Anyway, I'll try to check back from time to time to see if there are questions and of course I'll announce any big course equivalency or articulation breakthroughs that we hope to get.

[ashkir]

They seem on the newer side. Hopefully they apply for ACE evaluation https://www.acenet.edu/Programs-Services...iders.aspx

Once they have ACE evaluation I'm confident this site will blow up and be popular. NCCRS transfer options are so limited.

[rachel83az]

ACE would be awesome because then the LawShelf courses would be accepted at other schools, like UMPI. But, if we can get articulation agreements and equivalency charts for TESU, EC, and maybe even COSC, that'd be a pretty good start. They'll give Davar a run for their money, then.

[dfrecore]

The introduction wasn't the best, but these do look like genuinely useful courses for some students. Assuming, of course, that TESU and/or EC accept them. It'd be great if we could get someone willing to guinea pig one or two courses to see if TESU/EC will accept them.

The exams are also open book.

If these are accepted, this could be an amazing resource for students who can't or don't want to use video proctoring for one reason or another.

I'm affiliated with LS (yes, and NPC... and Coopersmith... the 5 kids just don't keep me busy enough ), so let me clarify a few things discussed on the thread.

While NPC has been with NCCRS since 2013, LS really just got most of its credit recommendations recently. NCCRS backdates to the date of the application, which is why they say 6/21, but the lion's share of the recommendations were posted in December. It was a process; let's just leave it at that. 

EC, TESU and COSC are all on our radar of course. We met with EC yesterday. There's no doubt of their accepting LS credit (they accept NCCRS as a policy), but we're working on nailing down an equivalency chart, which I think will be very useful (it will take a few weeks to iron out, I'm sure).

We are absolutely also reaching out to the other 2: TESU to get some sort of equivalency chart and COSC to get an articulation. Obviously, we'll announce anything we get in that regard.

Regarding NPC, I wouldn't quite say the LS courses are the same as the NPC courses. NPC requires assignments, multiple exams and are months-long synchronous courses. NPC is not for EC-style degree-finishers. It's for people who want deliberate more traditional instructor-led classes. The content is also not exactly the same, though they're on the same basic level, of course. Obviously, cannibalization of potential NPC students is something we've given a lot of thought to, but we're not convinced there's a huge overlap of people who are looking for a traditional college training regimen to become a paralegal or prepare for law school and those looking for complete a TESU or EC type degree. It's important to note in this vein that NPC credits are not the same as LS credits and I agree that NPC being DEAC has no impact on LS.

Anyway, I'll try to check back from time to time to see if there are questions and of course I'll announce any big course equivalency or articulation breakthroughs that we hope to get.

I'm going to guess that COSC will be a no-go, since they don't accept NCCRS any longer.

As for EC and TESU, hopefully you can get equivalencies for both, it would be good to know what the courses come in as.  But I'm going to guess that the majority will be free electives at both schools.

[jsd]

I had no idea COSC stopped taking NCCRS. I guess not being very active around here anymore means I'm missing a ton.

shaas, I (and I'm sure everyone else) really appreciate how active you have been around here when it comes to Coopersmith, so it's nice to see you're involved with LS as well!

[rachel83az]

COSC doesn't say outright that it doesn't accept NCCRS. On this page, it only says that they won't accept courses that aren't from providers that they have an agreement with: https://www.charteroak.edu/pla/credit-for-courses.php

Some SDC and Saylor courses are NCCRS and there's no asterisk next to them as there is with Maalot. Maalot is NCCRS: http://www.nationalccrs.org/organization...al-network They used to be ACE, but no longer have any active courses: https://www.acenet.edu/National-Guide/Pa...0d3a378a3a

[sanantone]

The introduction wasn't the best, but these do look like genuinely useful courses for some students. Assuming, of course, that TESU and/or EC accept them. It'd be great if we could get someone willing to guinea pig one or two courses to see if TESU/EC will accept them.

The exams are also open book.

If these are accepted, this could be an amazing resource for students who can't or don't want to use video proctoring for one reason or another.

I'm affiliated with LS (yes, and NPC... and Coopersmith... the 5 kids just don't keep me busy enough ), so let me clarify a few things discussed on the thread.

While NPC has been with NCCRS since 2013, LS really just got most of its credit recommendations recently. NCCRS backdates to the date of the application, which is why they say 6/21, but the lion's share of the recommendations were posted in December. It was a process; let's just leave it at that. 

EC, TESU and COSC are all on our radar of course. We met with EC yesterday. There's no doubt of their accepting LS credit (they accept NCCRS as a policy), but we're working on nailing down an equivalency chart, which I think will be very useful (it will take a few weeks to iron out, I'm sure).

We are absolutely also reaching out to the other 2: TESU to get some sort of equivalency chart and COSC to get an articulation. Obviously, we'll announce anything we get in that regard.

Regarding NPC, I wouldn't quite say the LS courses are the same as the NPC courses. NPC requires assignments, multiple exams and are months-long synchronous courses. NPC is not for EC-style degree-finishers. It's for people who want deliberate more traditional instructor-led classes. The content is also not exactly the same, though they're on the same basic level, of course. Obviously, cannibalization of potential NPC students is something we've given a lot of thought to, but we're not convinced there's a huge overlap of people who are looking for a traditional college training regimen to become a paralegal or prepare for law school and those looking for complete a TESU or EC type degree. It's important to note in this vein that NPC credits are not the same as LS credits and I agree that NPC being DEAC has no impact on LS.

Anyway, I'll try to check back from time to time to see if there are questions and of course I'll announce any big course equivalency or articulation breakthroughs that we hope to get.

But I'm going to guess that the majority will be free electives at both schools.

That would be my guess. If I remember correctly, law courses generally don't transfer well. If some of the courses will be treated as business or humanities, that would be helpful. TESU likes to evaluate courses like this as applied professional, which mostly limits them to free electives. If they can get a partnership with COSC, then the courses will be more useful in their paralegal studies concentration. 

I was trying to think of where people could potentially use the courses with graduate-level recommendations. Maybe Liberty University? They offer a Juris Master.

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The National Paralegal College has a partnership with Purdue Global, but does Purdue Global accept NCCRS credits?

[studyingfortests]

VoiceProctor looks really interesting. The pricing is a little confusing. According to the VoiceProctor website, it is a flat $40/year for a student to use VoiceProctor, but LegalShelf says $35/course.

Their verification process seems innovative. It still requires a webcam session when you first set up to verify you are who you say you are and record the initial voiceprint. But then, when you take your exam, it sounds like you just keep a phone line open and it randomly asks you questions, asks you to restate the answers to questions you did on your computer, and so forth (to make sure that who is on the computer is who is on the voice call, I guess.) I'd certainly prefer that to the disastrous ProctorU process my friend went through for all of his Coopersmith exams (given that it's apparently the same or related companies.)

All of this looks encouraging.

[shaas]

VoiceProctor looks really interesting.  The pricing is a little confusing. According to the VoiceProctor website, it is a flat $40/year for a student to use VoiceProctor, but LegalShelf says $35/course.

Their verification process seems innovative.  It still requires a webcam session when you first set up to verify you are who you say you are and record the initial voiceprint.  But then, when you take your exam, it sounds like you just keep a phone line open and it randomly asks you questions, asks you to restate the answers to questions you did on your computer, and so forth (to make sure that who is on the computer is who is on the voice call, I guess.)  I'd certainly prefer that to the disastrous ProctorU process my friend went through for all of his Coopersmith exams (given that it's apparently the same or related companies.)

All of this looks encouraging.

Usage of Voice Proctor is purchased by institutions, not individuals. LawShelf is $35 per exam. There is no additional proctoring fee.

===it sounds like you just keep a phone line open and it randomly asks you questions, asks you to restate the answers to questions you did on your computer===

Yes, though students can now use computer audio instead of phone audio, so there's no need even to have a free phone.

We use ProctorU with Coopersmith and let's just say Voice Proctor is better. But it only works for open book exams. It couldn't be used for closed book exams.

[Vle045]

I love this LawShelf. I would be even happier if the courses had a free badge version for people who don’t need it for college credit. I found one badge that works for my current role. I have an administrative role in K-12 education. If I don’t change my career path, i would love to get up to a higher level administrative role and that badge looks real pretty on my linkedin.

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I am going to just throw this out there for those who may not need an RA degree. It looks like Columbia Southern also accepts NCCRS credits. They take in I think up to 90 transfer credits and do have a CBE option. The per credit tuition is pretty cheap too….

http://www.nationalccrs.org/college-univ...university