Opinions on Master's International University of Divinity

[Rev]

I just finished the MTS at NationsU and would like to go on to a PhD in Biblical Studies program but I'm having a difficult time finding a program that 1. is legitimately accredited (regionally or nationally) and 2. is affordable. I would love to find a PhD program at a school that is financially and academically structured like NationsU (monthly tuition fee rather than per credit - study at own pace). I've looked extensively at Liberty University's PhD in Bible Exposition but it would cost $14k and this is the cheapest regionally accredited online program I could find. There is one nationally accredited program Antioch School but their program is a DMin and it ends up costing $11k after purchasing textbooks, etc.

If I went the non-accredited route I like Columbia Evangelical Seminary, though there seems to be a cloud hanging over the school due to the James White ThD issues with his dissertation. The price hovers around $6k, but that price I think is too high for an unaccredited school.  I do really like their student-designed curriculum and all writing format (not tests). I also like that you have a mentor assigned throughout the entire program rather than jumping from professor to professor.

Someone online recommended the school he got a PhD from: Master's International University of Divinity. I've looked into it extensively as well and I really like it. Not as much as Columbia's student designed curriculum. But, I got my hands on all the syllabi for the PhD in Biblical Studies and compared the requirements with Liberty's PhD program and they are essentially the same. Liberty leans heavier on quizzes and exams while Master's leans more on writing assignments. MI is also at your own pace whereas Liberty you are hampered by semesters (which is ridiculous). The overall price for MI would end up costing less than $2000 since I can put 40+ hours a week into study and they have a monthly payment plan of $200 down, $105/month and when you graduate you're done paying. The program does have a dissertation at the end with a dissertation defense online. It is exactly the same for Liberty and the dissertation page count minimum requirement appears to be exactly the same between them.

My problem is: this school is non-accredited. I have to ask why. Why not go through the process of getting at least nationally accredited. They have affiliate status with a national accreditor (not sure what that really means or why an accreditor would do that) and there are regionally accredited schools that work with MI. A quick search online shows many people in church ministry and non-accredited academia with degrees from the school. It's in my price range, it's the right degree and I could finish in about 6 months. But, am I going to be paying $2000 for a useless degree in the end?

I really can't justify paying $14k for a degree from Liberty when seminaries are pumping out Doctorates by the truckload. There's no chance I can get a job teaching online or even at a seminary. Not sure I would even want to. I have no real interest in paid ministry (I have a comfortable job already and after that job is over I will retire). I am doing the groundwork now on launching courses online with the possibility of starting an online philosophy/theology school focused on the subjects I'm really passionate about. Tuition would be free. No degrees. Just a certificate for each course and for finishing the entire program. 

I've seen other para-church ministry teachers get sketchy PhDs so they can put the "Dr." title on their books and training material for marketing purposes. But that just seems a little sleazy. I have a Master's in Theology from a nationally accredited school. I would imagine that would be fine. It is certainly not to teach at unaccredited seminaries. They all want PhDs. Nations wants PhDs and you don't even get paid there, its all volunteer teaching. Redemption Seminary (which I would love to teach at) currently requires a PhD but it does not have to be accredited. But, they said if they ever get accredited (which means they're moving that direction) then unaccredited PhD's would be out on their ear. 

I would like nothing else than to just start working on my online curriculum and launch courses I'm interested in and enjoy teaching (even if I don't make money at it - this is really not the goal). But, for some reason, I can't get the idea of completing a PhD out of my mind. I keep coming back to it. It keeps me up at night. I think I would enjoy the program at MI, but after all that work, all that effort, will it be a degree that I would have to explain and will always have that stigma of "unaccredited" attached to it?

Do you personally know of anyone who's gotten a doctorate from an unaccredited school that is happy with it, gainfully employed at an unaccredited seminary or school or teaching ministry? Or would I be better off to just call it quits and move on without the degree?

Did you end up enrolling with Master’s International School of Divinity?

[isaachunter]

Did you end up enrolling with Master’s International School of Divinity?

No. In the end, I was too uncomfortable with paying tuition for a degree that would be useless in an academic job market. Even though MIUSD would only cost about $2000 (depending of course on how long it actually took to put together the dissertation committee and schedule the defense), spending any money on a degree that would not end in a job I found counterproductive.

I went back and forth between several programs (including Liberty) and was just about to give up on the idea of  a doctorate at all, when someone on a forum (I think this forum) suggested Forge Theological Seminary. I was skeptical, but checked out the program. They are non-accredited (but so is MIUSD and CES), but are also free tuition. They used to have a PhD program but scrapped it and now just have a ThD program.  

FTS is a lot like CES (at least for the ThD program) just without the cost. It is a great program. I enjoyed it.

[cacoleman1983]

Did you end up enrolling with Master’s International School of Divinity?

No. In the end, I was too uncomfortable with paying tuition for a degree that would be useless in an academic job market. Even though MIUSD would only cost about $2000 (depending of course on how long it actually took to put together the dissertation committee and schedule the defense), spending any money on a degree that would not end in a job I found counterproductive.

I went back and forth between several programs (including Liberty) and was just about to give up on the idea of  a doctorate at all, when someone on a forum (I think this forum) suggested Forge Theological Seminary. I was skeptical, but checked out the program. They are non-accredited (but so is MIUSD and CES), but are also free tuition. They used to have a PhD program but scrapped it and now just have a ThD program.  

FTS is a lot like CES (at least for the ThD program) just without the cost. It is a great program. I enjoyed it.

You might be able to get this program validated through a foreign university and then have a foreign evaluation issued that would give it the equivalency of a regionally accredited degree.

[Rev]

Did you end up enrolling with Master’s International School of Divinity?

No. In the end, I was too uncomfortable with paying tuition for a degree that would be useless in an academic job market. Even though MIUSD would only cost about $2000 (depending of course on how long it actually took to put together the dissertation committee and schedule the defense), spending any money on a degree that would not end in a job I found counterproductive.

I went back and forth between several programs (including Liberty) and was just about to give up on the idea of  a doctorate at all, when someone on a forum (I think this forum) suggested Forge Theological Seminary. I was skeptical, but checked out the program. They are non-accredited (but so is MIUSD and CES), but are also free tuition. They used to have a PhD program but scrapped it and now just have a ThD program.  

FTS is a lot like CES (at least for the ThD program) just without the cost. It is a great program. I enjoyed it.

You might be able to get this program validated through a foreign university and then have a foreign evaluation issued that would give it the equivalency of a regionally accredited degree.

Is there an article or something that shows how to do that? Any examples of such a practice?

[carrythenothing]

Did you end up enrolling with Master’s International School of Divinity?

No. In the end, I was too uncomfortable with paying tuition for a degree that would be useless in an academic job market. Even though MIUSD would only cost about $2000 (depending of course on how long it actually took to put together the dissertation committee and schedule the defense), spending any money on a degree that would not end in a job I found counterproductive.

I went back and forth between several programs (including Liberty) and was just about to give up on the idea of  a doctorate at all, when someone on a forum (I think this forum) suggested Forge Theological Seminary. I was skeptical, but checked out the program. They are non-accredited (but so is MIUSD and CES), but are also free tuition. They used to have a PhD program but scrapped it and now just have a ThD program.  

FTS is a lot like CES (at least for the ThD program) just without the cost. It is a great program. I enjoyed it.

You might be able to get this program validated through a foreign university and then have a foreign evaluation issued that would give it the equivalency of a regionally accredited degree.

Is there an article or something that shows how to do that? Any examples of such a practice?

Recognition of foreign qualifications (U.S. ED): https://sites.ed.gov/international/recog...fications/

• National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES): https://www.naces.org/members
  
• Association of International Credential Evaluators (AICE): https://aice-eval.org/endorsed-members/
  

[cacoleman1983]

Did you end up enrolling with Master’s International School of Divinity?

No. In the end, I was too uncomfortable with paying tuition for a degree that would be useless in an academic job market. Even though MIUSD would only cost about $2000 (depending of course on how long it actually took to put together the dissertation committee and schedule the defense), spending any money on a degree that would not end in a job I found counterproductive.

I went back and forth between several programs (including Liberty) and was just about to give up on the idea of  a doctorate at all, when someone on a forum (I think this forum) suggested Forge Theological Seminary. I was skeptical, but checked out the program. They are non-accredited (but so is MIUSD and CES), but are also free tuition. They used to have a PhD program but scrapped it and now just have a ThD program.  

FTS is a lot like CES (at least for the ThD program) just without the cost. It is a great program. I enjoyed it.

You might be able to get this program validated through a foreign university and then have a foreign evaluation issued that would give it the equivalency of a regionally accredited degree.

Is there an article or something that shows how to do that? Any examples of such a practice?

Recognition of foreign qualifications (U.S. ED): https://sites.ed.gov/international/recog...fications/

• National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES): https://www.naces.org/members
  
• Association of International Credential Evaluators (AICE): https://aice-eval.org/endorsed-members/
  

Azteca University has a process of validating degrees as Grandos Propios (Own Degree) which means the programs are essentially university accredited but not programmatic accredited.  They would issue their own doctorate degree based on the other schools coursework.  Some evaluators may give an evaluation of regionally accredited by university but not program while others may only evaluate the credits earned with no degree.  

Here is a link:  https://www.universidadazteca.net/prior_...assessment.  It costs around $5000 for the Doctorate degree. You could then try to find a foreign evaluator that would give you a good evaluation.  The most progressive ones would likely be SpanTran or IEE.

[JSThinks]

I just finished the MTS at NationsU and would like to go on to a PhD in Biblical Studies program but I'm having a difficult time finding a program that 1. is legitimately accredited (regionally or nationally) and 2. is affordable. I would love to find a PhD program at a school that is financially and academically structured like NationsU (monthly tuition fee rather than per credit - study at own pace). I've looked extensively at Liberty University's PhD in Bible Exposition but it would cost $14k and this is the cheapest regionally accredited online program I could find. There is one nationally accredited program Antioch School but their program is a DMin and it ends up costing $11k after purchasing textbooks, etc.

If I went the non-accredited route I like Columbia Evangelical Seminary, though there seems to be a cloud hanging over the school due to the James White ThD issues with his dissertation. The price hovers around $6k, but that price I think is too high for an unaccredited school.  I do really like their student-designed curriculum and all writing format (not tests). I also like that you have a mentor assigned throughout the entire program rather than jumping from professor to professor.

Someone online recommended the school he got a PhD from: Master's International University of Divinity. I've looked into it extensively as well and I really like it. Not as much as Columbia's student designed curriculum. But, I got my hands on all the syllabi for the PhD in Biblical Studies and compared the requirements with Liberty's PhD program and they are essentially the same. Liberty leans heavier on quizzes and exams while Master's leans more on writing assignments. MI is also at your own pace whereas Liberty you are hampered by semesters (which is ridiculous). The overall price for MI would end up costing less than $2000 since I can put 40+ hours a week into study and they have a monthly payment plan of $200 down, $105/month and when you graduate you're done paying. The program does have a dissertation at the end with a dissertation defense online. It is exactly the same for Liberty and the dissertation page count minimum requirement appears to be exactly the same between them.

My problem is: this school is non-accredited. I have to ask why. Why not go through the process of getting at least nationally accredited. They have affiliate status with a national accreditor (not sure what that really means or why an accreditor would do that) and there are regionally accredited schools that work with MI. A quick search online shows many people in church ministry and non-accredited academia with degrees from the school. It's in my price range, it's the right degree and I could finish in about 6 months. But, am I going to be paying $2000 for a useless degree in the end?

I really can't justify paying $14k for a degree from Liberty when seminaries are pumping out Doctorates by the truckload. There's no chance I can get a job teaching online or even at a seminary. Not sure I would even want to. I have no real interest in paid ministry (I have a comfortable job already and after that job is over I will retire). I am doing the groundwork now on launching courses online with the possibility of starting an online philosophy/theology school focused on the subjects I'm really passionate about. Tuition would be free. No degrees. Just a certificate for each course and for finishing the entire program. 

I've seen other para-church ministry teachers get sketchy PhDs so they can put the "Dr." title on their books and training material for marketing purposes. But that just seems a little sleazy. I have a Master's in Theology from a nationally accredited school. I would imagine that would be fine. It is certainly not to teach at unaccredited seminaries. They all want PhDs. Nations wants PhDs and you don't even get paid there, its all volunteer teaching. Redemption Seminary (which I would love to teach at) currently requires a PhD but it does not have to be accredited. But, they said if they ever get accredited (which means they're moving that direction) then unaccredited PhD's would be out on their ear. 

I would like nothing else than to just start working on my online curriculum and launch courses I'm interested in and enjoy teaching (even if I don't make money at it - this is really not the goal). But, for some reason, I can't get the idea of completing a PhD out of my mind. I keep coming back to it. It keeps me up at night. I think I would enjoy the program at MI, but after all that work, all that effort, will it be a degree that I would have to explain and will always have that stigma of "unaccredited" attached to it?

Do you personally know of anyone who's gotten a doctorate from an unaccredited school that is happy with it, gainfully employed at an unaccredited seminary or school or teaching ministry? Or would I be better off to just call it quits and move on without the degree?

I'm late to the discussion here, but Isaac I will say that your goals and situation sound similar to mine. I run a teaching ministry in the areas of Christian worldview and apologetics, and I can't shake the desire to get a PhD (I currently have a MA/Philosophy of Religion from TEDS). I'm going to be launching our ministry's online academy in the next year, Lord willing. 

So my question for you is... what did you decide?

[Rev]

I just finished the MTS at NationsU and would like to go on to a PhD in Biblical Studies program but I'm having a difficult time finding a program that 1. is legitimately accredited (regionally or nationally) and 2. is affordable. I would love to find a PhD program at a school that is financially and academically structured like NationsU (monthly tuition fee rather than per credit - study at own pace). I've looked extensively at Liberty University's PhD in Bible Exposition but it would cost $14k and this is the cheapest regionally accredited online program I could find. There is one nationally accredited program Antioch School but their program is a DMin and it ends up costing $11k after purchasing textbooks, etc.

If I went the non-accredited route I like Columbia Evangelical Seminary, though there seems to be a cloud hanging over the school due to the James White ThD issues with his dissertation. The price hovers around $6k, but that price I think is too high for an unaccredited school.  I do really like their student-designed curriculum and all writing format (not tests). I also like that you have a mentor assigned throughout the entire program rather than jumping from professor to professor.

Someone online recommended the school he got a PhD from: Master's International University of Divinity. I've looked into it extensively as well and I really like it. Not as much as Columbia's student designed curriculum. But, I got my hands on all the syllabi for the PhD in Biblical Studies and compared the requirements with Liberty's PhD program and they are essentially the same. Liberty leans heavier on quizzes and exams while Master's leans more on writing assignments. MI is also at your own pace whereas Liberty you are hampered by semesters (which is ridiculous). The overall price for MI would end up costing less than $2000 since I can put 40+ hours a week into study and they have a monthly payment plan of $200 down, $105/month and when you graduate you're done paying. The program does have a dissertation at the end with a dissertation defense online. It is exactly the same for Liberty and the dissertation page count minimum requirement appears to be exactly the same between them.

My problem is: this school is non-accredited. I have to ask why. Why not go through the process of getting at least nationally accredited. They have affiliate status with a national accreditor (not sure what that really means or why an accreditor would do that) and there are regionally accredited schools that work with MI. A quick search online shows many people in church ministry and non-accredited academia with degrees from the school. It's in my price range, it's the right degree and I could finish in about 6 months. But, am I going to be paying $2000 for a useless degree in the end?

I really can't justify paying $14k for a degree from Liberty when seminaries are pumping out Doctorates by the truckload. There's no chance I can get a job teaching online or even at a seminary. Not sure I would even want to. I have no real interest in paid ministry (I have a comfortable job already and after that job is over I will retire). I am doing the groundwork now on launching courses online with the possibility of starting an online philosophy/theology school focused on the subjects I'm really passionate about. Tuition would be free. No degrees. Just a certificate for each course and for finishing the entire program. 

I've seen other para-church ministry teachers get sketchy PhDs so they can put the "Dr." title on their books and training material for marketing purposes. But that just seems a little sleazy. I have a Master's in Theology from a nationally accredited school. I would imagine that would be fine. It is certainly not to teach at unaccredited seminaries. They all want PhDs. Nations wants PhDs and you don't even get paid there, its all volunteer teaching. Redemption Seminary (which I would love to teach at) currently requires a PhD but it does not have to be accredited. But, they said if they ever get accredited (which means they're moving that direction) then unaccredited PhD's would be out on their ear. 

I would like nothing else than to just start working on my online curriculum and launch courses I'm interested in and enjoy teaching (even if I don't make money at it - this is really not the goal). But, for some reason, I can't get the idea of completing a PhD out of my mind. I keep coming back to it. It keeps me up at night. I think I would enjoy the program at MI, but after all that work, all that effort, will it be a degree that I would have to explain and will always have that stigma of "unaccredited" attached to it?

Do you personally know of anyone who's gotten a doctorate from an unaccredited school that is happy with it, gainfully employed at an unaccredited seminary or school or teaching ministry? Or would I be better off to just call it quits and move on without the degree?

I'm late to the discussion here, but Isaac I will say that your goals and situation sound similar to mine. I run a teaching ministry in the areas of Christian worldview and apologetics, and I can't shake the desire to get a PhD (I currently have a MA/Philosophy of Religion from TEDS). I'm going to be launching our ministry's online academy in the next year, Lord willing. 

So my question for you is... what did you decide?

I believe he noted above that he attended an institution that was unaccredited and yet tuition-free. He said he earned a Th.D.

[Old Coot]

New to this forum and discussion, and grateful for the irenic, professional spirit that is here. I've been on other discussion forums like this, and the verbal smog is often dense. The collegiality here is refreshing. Thank you.

But now to the discussion. I appreciate the candor on various grad programs and schools. Were I not about to enter my seventh decade on this planet, I might be concerned, as are some, with the issue of accreditation. But now, as an old geezer, my desire to obtain a doctorate has nothing to do with future employment; it has to do with bucket list, with a goal I set over half a century ago. My goal out of high school was to become a Bible college professor. I wanted to be a teacher like my father but not in public schools like him. Six years in the Army gave me a GI Bill for education. Situations as they are, it took 37 years to cobble together a BA (accredited). My wife and I served smaller, often financially challenged churches, and many times we had to work outside jobs to pay the church bills, let alone put food on the table for the children. I would take one undergrad class then have to wait five years to save up enough to get another class, which often went up in smoke if we needed a tire or a trip to the doctor for one of our girls. I graduated with the BA in 2010, then was able to begin a masters in theology in 2020 at a marginally accredited online seminary. Today I finished the thesis and allowed myself to search around for some kind of doctorate program. While in my dreams I would love to go to TEDS or LRU or (dreaming really big) Aberdeen, the reality is we are till pastoring a smaller church, and so the funds stay limited at times. As I noted, the accreditation issues are for some of you vital for your professional future, but for this old guy, whom no one would hire now even if I had Aberdeen, Basel and Tubingen all in my corner, the goal is just to say "I did it." Of course, some would disparage my efforts became of the lack of accreditation, but I really am not concerned. I wrote six papers of 300 pages each plus a 400 page thesis to satisfy the research masters program I chose, and thankful I will probably graduate summa cum laude. I'm just going after a 50 year old dream. Thanks for the info on Masters and the other schools. It gives me some more information to research. Have a good day, afternoon, evening or whatever time zone you are in.

[isaachunter]

I'm late to the discussion here, but Isaac I will say that your goals and situation sound similar to mine. I run a teaching ministry in the areas of Christian worldview and apologetics, and I can't shake the desire to get a PhD (I currently have a MA/Philosophy of Religion from TEDS). I'm going to be launching our ministry's online academy in the next year, Lord willing. 
So my question for you is... what did you decide?

This is an old post and a lot has happened. But I will provide an update on several things.

1. I ended up entering the Th.D. Program at Forge Theological Seminary and finished my degree.
2. About a year later I was in the process of getting married and I received an email from FTS stating they were restructuring and expanding and were extending an invitation to me to apply to teach.
3. I applied, was hired, and now I teach four classes online at FTS.
4. The seminary is no longer tuition free. It is subscription based. I think $60/month while you are in classes.
5. I also volunteer as a mentor at an online Bible Institute, where I manage 10+ courses, help students with their studies, answer questions, etc.
6. I have recently returned to FTS as a student to complete an MDiv to fill in the gaps I have in my previous degrees concerning practical ministry. Most of my studies have been research, theological, philosophically based. I have very little practical ministry training and my wife and I are now heavily engaged in local ministry at our church as well as hopefully launching a writing/online ministry in the future.

For about three years I was perfectly fine with my Th.D. and thought I was finally finished with formal education. But I am once again back in school and even looking at possible options for a Ph.D. Just depends on what God would want me to do.