Kids, college, competition

[BELLA]

On this site we usually discuss our own adult education pursuits. Now l have a question for parents whose kids have gone to college. I notice some kids are getting burnt out by the extreme competition. Parents are all about magnet or specialized programs so their kids can make it into elite programs. There are other sites that share info but some of those parents are on overdrive. Can the parents here share a bit about unmotivated burnt out kids actually landing on their feet?

Forgot to add the extracurricular overload.

[bjcheung77]

On this site we usually discuss our own adult education pursuits. Now l have a question for parents whose kids have gone to college. I notice some kids are getting burnt out by the extreme competition. Parents are all about magnet or specialized programs so their kids can make it into elite programs. There are other sites that share info but some of those parents are on overdrive. Can the parents here share a bit about unmotivated burnt out kids actually landing on their feet?

Forgot to add the extracurricular overload.

My kids are only 4 and 2.5, so it's going to be a long way until they reach college/university, but I've thought about it already along with my wife.
We believe education for them is best when they love learning, not by force feeding them the education or learning. We read to them during the day and at night when they go to bed, etc. What we're doing is having them go to preschool for English, but also have them take French Immersion as a second language.

When they head to kindergarten, we'll have them start French Immersion until it ends many years later when they graduate from High School.
During their high school years, we'll try to have them excel in each class and have them take enriched courses for credit, like the AP programs or dual credit ones so they can start their college classes early. We are not going to force them to get good grades, or remind them we want them in an Ivy League school.

What I'd like to do is have them go through non traditional means if necessary to get their degrees, such as going through the Big 3 or WGU. It's up to them to decide what profession is best suited for them, I would like to try my best to lead them to that destination. They need to "like" and "want" to have an easier education, instead of "hating school" like many youngsters do and they drop out early. Be their cheerleader and handhold them throughout the years...

[AngelaP]

I can't speak to college yet either, but it is never to early to instill a love for learning and good study skills. My son is going into middle school. He has been in SCOPE in elementary (advanced) and has always made honor roll. I have never told him he must make straight A's, but he must make good grades. He is very intelligent and has a lot of potential, but is very lazy. He also has ADHD so I do have to stay on him, help him remember, keep him on schedule, etc. He gets to pick some of his classes for next year and I placed my pick first and his next. I look at it as a springboard to high school. When he reaches high school I want him to be prepared as best he can be. I also want him to take classes in high school to count for college to help with that transition. I don't really have to worry about after school activities because he got burned out on sports earlier and know gaming is is thing, needs the constant stimulation. However, he has learned more than I thought while gaming. Any how, I'm sure that is way more than you wanted, but that is my plan for my son. Of course it may change.

[davewill]

My twins both got into good schools. One left UC Davis during his freshman year, earning no credit, and one left UC Riverside at the end of her freshman year. I literally had to go to Riverside and nurse her through the last week so that she would get her credit before coming home. Luckily I could afford the hotel, and was able to work from the hotel room for that time.

They both suffered from eating disorders, and it's been a long road (3 years) with them recovering and going to community college. They got excellent grades at community college and are now ready to go back to university, the boy to UCSD (commute from home) and the girl to Cal. We're a little nervous, especially with one going away to such a competitve school. but they've really come a long way. The folks from Cal have been very supportive so far. The stats are a 95% graduation rate for transfer students which really helped my daughter's confidence.

[cookderosa]

Great new book out called There is Life After College by Jeffrey Selingo (Higher Ed Chronicle) - totally worth a read. It's for those who like to read about outcomes. Anyway...

I'm not that parent- the one who sends my kids into the hyper competitive edu-marketplace fighting for a slot in the top 2% so they can have....well, whatever it is that is promised for crossing that finish line.

[Bibby]

Everyone, especially young people, needs a push in the right direction from time to time. I actually think I would've benefited from a little more competition when I was in school. However, the "tiger moms" (and tiger dads) who push their kids to the point of mental and physical exhaustion are doing more harm than good. After all, as Cookderosa mentioned, there's no guarantee about what the reward will be for engineering the first two decades of your life just to increase your chance of getting into the "right" school. Extrinsic motivators only take you so far - ultimately, kids need to want to learn for the sake of learning and improving themselves.

Also, the Selingo book sounds rather interesting. I wouldn't mind taking a look at it someday.

[cookderosa]

Getting into college is no great accomplishment. Getting out, now that's hard.

My observation around this topic is that 100% of the mainstream high school propaganda is about getting in. *as if that's enough.

Here's what I know about college:
100% of people can get into community college. 13% will get out with a degree.
More than 50% can get into a 4-year public university. Of the group admitted, about 55% will get out with a degree.
Roughly 20% can get into a competitive 4 year university. Of the group admitted, close to 80% will get out with a degree.
Roughly 5% can get into an elite 4 year university. Of the group admitted, close to 90% will get out with a degree.

Now, here's my opinion, the harder you have to push your child, the less internal motivation they have (obviously). The kids that are landing spots in elite and competitive universities are EXCEPTIONALLY motivated- and have been at that hard core level for YEARS by the time the application cycles open. It's also my opinion that these kids don't need their mommy telling them to kick but in Calculus class, they have the drive to succeed. Maybe it's nature, maybe it's nurture, I don't know- but the truth is that if your kid isn't driving their own boat in high school, there is little that Mom can do at that point. (which isn't to stop her from obsessing and trying of course....)

So, statistics and data show that ALL IN, roughly 34% of Americans have a bachelor's degree. That means, that despite the parent's best intentions, when left to make their own life decisions on a daily basis, 1/3 of the students power through and 2/3 don't. What makes it happen for those 1/3? I don't know, but all my money is on internal motivation.

This forum, generally speaking, is 100% about getting out.
People here have dropped the pretense about brand names, big 10 sports, and the "college experience." People here graduate. People here are also older. I don't know our graduation rate- but our pass rate for exams is high, it's always been high when we poll members. Better than 85% or so.

I don't know why it's so different- the fantasy for our 17 year olds and the reality for the 37 year old. I don't have the answer, but I do think about it a lot, and I think that many parents could save themselves significant disappointments and stress if they adjusted their expectations a bit. Let's face it, the parents boasting about Johnny getting into the University of My State is doing so prematurely imo.

[LaterBloomer]

As always, Cookderosa not only hit the nail on the head, she drove it home. Lots of bright kids get admitted to college, but never graduate. Lots of not-so-bright-kids who know how to persevere not only graduate, but are successful in life.

There are many affluent, well-educated people in my neck of the woods who are devastated when their little angels don't get into a well-regarded state university, or an Ivy. Guess what? There are lots more kids who get great SAT grades, have 4.0+ GPAs, practically qualify for an Olympic sport, and have community service (local and world) activities that make Mother Teresa look like a slacker than there are slots. Not every can (or should)be admitted. If you can, raise children who try hard, and are kind to others. If you do that, you have raised, IMHO, successful children.

(FYI, Know the definition of the perfect mother? One who has never had children. I'm a PERFECT mom!)

[davewill]

That was the biggest complaint my two have about their Community College experience, too many of their classmates were just going through the motions. (This is your third time taking this class and you still skip class?)

The adult student is pretty much by definition motivated. They certainly aren't doing it to make their parents happy.

[AngelaP]

I think when you are paying for it you have more incentive. All you can do is be there for them and support them, it is their responsibility to get the grades to pass.