IT Security Career Change Mid-Career?

[dfrecore]

Yes, I think people don't always read the original post and actually try to answer the questions people have - one person pipes in with their thought, then others start responding to THAT instead of to the original question.

I tried to keep to the original question, hopefully others with IT experience might chime in with more helpful advice after actually READING your post thoroughly!! And maybe the title of the post too...

Good luck!!

[bjcheung77]

Hi There,

I'm scheduled to graduate with a BS Business Administration later this year.
I was wondering if I will be able to apply to a Masters in Cybersecurity and Information Assurance.
I am very much interested in the program and the field, but I am not in IT.

My expertise is in Business/Retail Security and I have been a manager for a few years now.
I was hoping my managerial skills will be sufficient if I ever wanted to move into an IT Management role.
Furthermore, I would like to learn more and earn the CEH/CHFI certification mentioned for MSCIA.

After viewing the webpage for MSCIA - Online Master
My question is, with a BSBA. Can I meet the entry requirements after I obtain a CCNA certification?
Or are there other requirements? As there are 3 options: I think earning the CCNA is sufficient as per option B below.

Applicants must hold a bachelor’s degree from a regionally or nationally accredited college or university, and must also demonstrate IT security
experience through at least one of the following three methods:

A) Have earned a bachelor’s degree in IT security or IT networking that covers at least two CISSP CBK domains. (You can find the domains listed here.)
B) Hold a CISSP, CCIE, CCNP, CCNA, CCNA Security, CEH, CHFI, GIAC 2700 or GCWN certification that is valid and earned within the last five years.
C) Submit a resume for review showing recent significant IT security experience, of at least three years, which demonstrates at least two CISSP CBK domains.

As options A and C aren't available/completed by me, I was wanting to go for Option B and complete one of the Certifications, specifically CCNA.
Can someone get back in touch with me, please?
Thank you for your time, Bjcheung77

Hi Bryan,

Option B would provide you a pathway into the MSCIA program. I will recommend that our first step will be connecting with enrollment.

The CCNA certification is a heavy exam. I will encourage you to utilize the appropriate study guides and resources to ensure absolute preparation.

Should any questions come about please feel free to contact me.

Enrique Arvayo
WGU WA
Community Relations Manager Western Washington
20435 72nd Ave S, Suite 301
Kent, WA 98032

P: 253.905.7181
Email: enrique.arvayo@wgu.edu

Sent from my iPhone

So, to satisfy my assumption and curiosity, I actually sent an email to WGU asking about the MSCIA and admission to it.
For the OP, I think there's no harm in calling or contacting the enrollment team or the person who responded back to me.
Again, there are no other requirements but the CCNA - You can take your time in completing it if you are new to IT.

Everyone has to start at some place, the CCNA maybe a "harder" exam, but not by much as it has no prerequisites.
If you are admitted to the program, you're not thrown to the dogs, you have terms to learn your CEH and CHFI certs.
Also, spend some time with your IT dept director and ask what he/she looks for in a manager role for IT prerequisites.

[bjcheung77]

Why not CIS? You are making it harder on yourself. The GM is a mistake if you are going to IT.

I agree with your advice on many of your previous posts, but this one got me a little curious on what you were thinking... i'm interested.
I've a question for you, since you're in IT and in Senior Management, which IT certifications do you hold? As I like to go that route too, maybe/maybe not.
If you already are in a senior management role, wouldn't it have been better to get IT certifications and go for a Masters instead of a second BSBA?

I recall you have an AA/BA from a University, so, why did you choose to take a BSBA CIS? It's a Business, not IT degree, with 5/6 extra CIS courses.
Do those courses make it easier/better, than any other BSBA degree & an IT Certification? I looked at the CIS AOS, one can do an MIS/TECEP and be done with the others in a very short time, hardly anyone can be an instant "specialist" in IT with these courses. To recap, the 5/6 I wanted to take are as follows:

1) Introduction to Programming C++ (SL for $49) - This should be a very simple course
2) Info Systems Analysis and Design (CSU Global at $250) - The only harder course (along with the other CSU one)
3) Computer Concepts & Applications (TECEP $114) - This is supposed to be a very simple course as well
4) Management Info Systems (DSST $100) - All business information systems, I would assume
5) Network Technology (TECEP $114) - This should be similar to Network+
6) Cloud Computing and Big Data (CSU Global at $250) - I think this one no longer will work
But in any case, most of these are entry level but for the CSU Global courses.

I'm just thinking it's "backward" moving/tracking to recommend forgoing the General Management for a CIS when that has been done already.
For myself, I would like to go from A to B in order to reach C in logical steps or with as many shortcuts as possible. Get a degree, it cert and masters.
But strangely, I am also thinking of going for a BSIT instead of just jumping into a Masters. I am weird like that... haha, and I've been in IT for 20 years.

On a side note, from reading your previous posts, I highly recommend NOT to go for a management position in any Government IT department.
I've been in government IT (and still am for 8 years), managers are not part of the union, they are the first to get laid off. I am one step/pay grade below a manager and I love it, I have subordinates to delegate tasks and get to work at home without the insecurity of being fired any time, i'm not on contract like the managers are and they are only paid a small % over my pay grade.

My previous job was also in IT for 7.5 years, however in private sector, a vertical market (Real Estate Software/Online Network of Services). Guess what? I got into IT because I did my due diligence and had my basics covered, it's not hard to get in without any IT experience at all... you just need to have the connections and basics covered for what they're looking for, if it's in management, they don't require anything but "management experience" and a little bit of "know how".

Let me ask you, since you're in Senior Management, how many times have you checked on the network or system at work for IT compliance? Don't you delegate those tasks to subordinates? I would assume you keep the bread and butter of the department in order, but the dirty grease jobs are done by someone else...
Hmm, that's just my thought. I wonder if that's how other organizations are, as the 4 IT companies I've worked with are exactly that.

[bjcheung77]

I highly advise you to find an INFOSEC forum or two and post your question there. Do not take advice from folks who have no experience in the industry. Consider the occupation of folks before giving their opinions equal weight. In this case, TrailRunr's advice is probably best.

FWIW, I'd be very curious what type of company would hire someone as a mid-level security engineer with no previous infosec experience. For a position like this, you do need technical chops, not just general managerial experience.

Holy poo poo, I agree with you there, not many people will hire a mid level security engineer with no prior experience. And that leads to my point, I don't think any IT Managers actually know what they are doing as many of the ones I come across are all business minded, the IT side are handled by the underlings. Infosec may be different, but from Directors, VP, upward, I have never come across anyone with a degree or competency level to even reach a junior techie position.

Further to TrailRunr's comments, I don't think he's in the "heart" of IT, as many of his replies to the other forum members are in regards to hiring practices. Such as what is looked at more in regards to Certs as a way of getting into the IT field. That leaves me to believe he's in a high level IT position but more on the HR admin role.

[icampy]

What about the IT degree from TESU vs the cis or cyber security? It isn't solely focused on security, but has more AOS than the cis?

[TrailRunr]

I agree with your advice on many of your previous posts, but this one got me a little curious on what you were thinking... i'm interested.
I've a question for you, since you're in IT and in Senior Management, which IT certifications do you hold? As I like to go that route too, maybe/maybe not.
If you already are in a senior management role, wouldn't it have been better to get IT certifications and go for a Masters instead of a second BSBA?

I recall you have an AA/BA from a University, so, why did you choose to take a BSBA CIS? It's a Business, not IT degree, with 5/6 extra CIS courses.
Do those courses make it easier/better, than any other BSBA degree & an IT Certification? I looked at the CIS AOS, one can do an MIS/TECEP and be done with the others in a very short time, hardly anyone can be an instant "specialist" in IT with these courses. To recap, the 5/6 I wanted to take are as follows:

1) Introduction to Programming C++ (SL for $49) - This should be a very simple course
2) Info Systems Analysis and Design (CSU Global at $250) - The only harder course (along with the other CSU one)
3) Computer Concepts & Applications (TECEP $114) - This is supposed to be a very simple course as well
4) Management Info Systems (DSST $100) - All business information systems, I would assume
5) Network Technology (TECEP $114) - This should be similar to Network+
6) Cloud Computing and Big Data (CSU Global at $250) - I think this one no longer will work
But in any case, most of these are entry level but for the CSU Global courses.

I'm just thinking it's "backward" moving/tracking to recommend forgoing the General Management for a CIS when that has been done already.
For myself, I would like to go from A to B in order to reach C in logical steps or with as many shortcuts as possible. Get a degree, it cert and masters.
But strangely, I am also thinking of going for a BSIT instead of just jumping into a Masters. I am weird like that... haha, and I've been in IT for 20 years.

On a side note, from reading your previous posts, I highly recommend NOT to go for a management position in any Government IT department.
I've been in government IT (and still am for 8 years), managers are not part of the union, they are the first to get laid off. I am one step/pay grade below a manager and I love it, I have subordinates to delegate tasks and get to work at home without the insecurity of being fired any time, i'm not on contract like the managers are and they are only paid a small % over my pay grade.

My previous job was also in IT for 7.5 years, however in private sector, a vertical market (Real Estate Software/Online Network of Services). Guess what? I got into IT because I did my due diligence and had my basics covered, it's not hard to get in without any IT experience at all... you just need to have the connections and basics covered for what they're looking for, if it's in management, they don't require anything but "management experience" and a little bit of "know how".

Let me ask you, since you're in Senior Management, how many times have you checked on the network or system at work for IT compliance? Don't you delegate those tasks to subordinates? I would assume you keep the bread and butter of the department in order, but the dirty grease jobs are done by someone else...
Hmm, that's just my thought. I wonder if that's how other organizations are, as the 4 IT companies I've worked with are exactly that.

I didn't see this earlier. This is a very complicated set of questions.

I'm in the middle management side in a division of a large IT department. But if something breaks, I can still fix it faster than the others and occasionally I have to do that. My recent promotion required a technical degree, so I pursued a CS (but CIS would have worked) degree. But I feel like I've reached the glass ceiling. I don't really want to go in depth about my work situation, but there are several paths. One is via EPIC. Another is to go fully into IT management. The third option is to wait for new areas of IT to open up like data science work, but that is still vaporware in our organization. IT certs would be a waste of time for me.

So let's go back to your original questions. I have the equivalent of a BA.LS degree. HR department wants specific majors. I could have chosen to go with the easy path with CIS and that's what I originally went for. But the CS degree was within firing distance of my educational cannon. And I already mentioned about the new areas of IT that might open up.

The classes in the CIS are quite frankly a joke just like the CompTIA certs. You shouldn't need to study to pass the networking TECEP or the MIS DSST as a seasoned IT professional. I took both, and I thought both of them were super easy. CIS degrees are considered a bit of a joke even if it's from brick and mortar schools. Our tech jobs really require a high level of tech knowledge and experience. Nobody is going to hire for mid-level and up with zero experience and a bunch of certs. I like seeing VCP-DCP, RHCE, and other higher level certs. I don't give extra credit for lower level certs like CompTIA for mid-level positions. Once you get high up, nobody gives a **** about your certs.

So one strategy is to go for the technical BA and then the MBA. There is no need to get two business degrees if one of them is the MBA. BSBA -> MBA doesn't make sense versus BSAST/BACS/WGU -> MBA. That CS degree will be more portable. Pair it up with that MBA and you're a pretty technical director.

Now to get that executive IT management job, you need to satisfy the checkbox (degree in specific major) to get past HR. That's what the MBA is for. Then 80% of whether you get the job is your standing in office politics. Having a bunch of certs won't matter if your fellow managers don't like you. At my place, a job opening for a director is often intended for a specific person in mind. You can apply, but it's a waste of time.

I know this doesn't really answer all your questions, but I have to get back to work. Hopefully this helps somewhat and why I don't think much of certs in general except for helpdesk folks.

[icampy]

Good info. Would a general "technical studies" degree from TESU or IT degree from TESU be a better choice or taken more seriously in your field than CIS? BSAST, I mean.

[icampy]

Its not my thread, just curioud for my own sake. I plan to stay in my industry until retirement, but looking for "good looking" resume enhancers to provide some mobility amongst my company.

[TrailRunr]

Good info. Would a general "technical studies" degree from TESU or IT degree from TESU be a better choice or taken more seriously in your field than CIS? BSAST, I mean.

I tend not to look at the degrees because tech screen is way more important. But it will matter to HR if the job requires a specific degree. I cannot access resumes from HR's reject pile including internal candidates that I encouraged. The performance during the tech screen is most important. If you are a business MIS major, got past HR, and score on the tech screen, welcome aboard! Second most important is fit. Degrees and certs are the last tie breakers. Sometimes having a CS or other technical degree like BSAST, BSIT or higher-level IT certs make me want to grab someone over another person. We've had problems with folks who are bright but can't learn new tricks. I know that's not a straight answer, because sometimes it doesn't matter if you get BSAST or something more technical.

[James Michel]

I want to be CEH certified, but i dont know how to do it ( as  i m beginner ).So if somebody could help me out how else can i study and get CEH? Please help me out, i shall b really thankful to you for replying.