Homeschooling

[sanantone]

I would argue that homeschooling protects children from an incompetent government. The government does a horrible job at education. Academically, homeschooled children on average score 37 percentage points higher on standardized tests than children schooled by the government. And the government spends on average $10,000 per child per year versus parents, who spend $500 per homeschooled child. Achievement gaps prominent in public schools (gender, minority status, household income, parents' level of education) tend not to be a big factor in achievement in home education. HSLDA | Homeschool Progress Report 2009--Academic Achievement and Demographics

Is this controlled for demographic differences such as two-parent homes vs. one-parent homes, income, education level of the parents, number of working parents, ethnicity, and level of parental involvement? In other words, this could be like saying that vegetarians live longer, healthier lives. It's arguable that they live longer, healthier lives because they are vegetarians. Most vegetarians just happen to be people who care a lot about their health. This is self-selection bias. I read on their website that some of those demographics didn't make a difference among the homeschoolers, but it is bad science to compare unequal groups. I would like to see the actually demographics of the two groups that were compared.

Most importantly, as far as Christians desiring to homeschool, these are the statistics that I find most compelling:

"94% of homeschoolers keep the faith and 93% continue to attend church after the high school years. But a shocking 75% to 85% of Christian children sent to public school drop out of church, and do not hold a Christian worldview after high school graduation." (quote from exporinghomeschooling.com)

Isaiah 54:13 "And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children."

I don't see anything wrong with this. Of course children are more likely to follow the religion they were raised in if they have never been presented with other views. I think it's a wonderful thing for people to be able to follow their own paths when they reach adulthood. I don't believe in sheltering and brainwashing children just because I'm afraid that my worldview will not hold up to others. If my worldview is indeed superior, then it should be the clear choice. But, again, this is self-selection bias. As a whole, we already know that homeschooling parents tend to be more conservative than the general population. When you're comparing two groups, they should be almost exactly the same in every category except for the method/treatment that is being tested.

[sanantone]

This study appears to be controlled for homeschool parent teacher certification, state homeschool regulation (low regulation vs. high regulation), education level of homeschooling parents, family income, money spent on education, and child gender. It stated that the vast majority of the participants in the study were married (97.9%), and 19.4% of the homeschooling mothers worked. You can see the details of the report in the link I provided earlier, if you care to dig deeper. (I have seen another study that measured achievement vs. ethnicity, and the achievement gap was not comparable to the wide gap in public schools.)

I did read the details. They gave the demographics for the homeschoolers, but not the public school attendants they compared them to. The demographics of the homeschoolers are far from matching the demographics of the general population, so they would have to do something like propensity score matching to get a good sample from public schools since random assignment is not an option.

[Kintsukuroi]

But really, what difference does it make? The majority of people that *are* homeschooling are doing it well as the statistics appear to back. This is where public education totally misses the mark for me (trying to fit everyone under the same umbrella), why does it need to be a homeschooling versus public schooling thing? Why can't it be a some people will receive an excellent education being homeschooled and some people will receive an excellent education being public schooled? Yes, some kids are going to receive a sub par education being homeschooled but so do many public schooled children. This is why I love living in a state that lets me, as the parent, decide what type of education is best for my children.

[sanantone]

But really, what difference does it make? The majority of people that *are* homeschooling are doing it well as the statistics appear to back. This is where public education totally misses the mark for me (trying to fit everyone under the same umbrella), why does it need to be a homeschooling versus public schooling thing? Why can't it be a some people will receive an excellent education being homeschooled and some people will receive an excellent education being public schooled? Yes, some kids are going to receive a sub par education being homeschooled but so do many public schooled children. This is why I love living in a state that lets me, as the parent, decide what type of education is best for my children.

I only take issue with someone suggesting that homeschooling is better than public school when there are many other factors to consider. I would believe that notion if someone presented a credible study. I never said that homeschooling was inferior because that's not the point. It might work fine for the very stable families who choose to do it, but it might not work for everyone else. Yes, plenty of people receive a good education while being homeschooled. Many people also receive a good education at public schools. I think I received an excellent education at most of the public schools I attended, and my test scores reflect that. If one wanted to say that homeschooling is better than public schooling, then one would have to compare like groups to make a fair comparison. This is the reason why I think everyone should be required to take a statistics course. It's easy to fool anybody with "studies" when people don't even know what you're doing.

The truth is that most of these kids would perform just as well after having attended public schools. The students who attend the most affluent public schools in my metro area perform very well on standardized tests. It's about them coming from middle class to upper class, stable, two-parent homes where the parents are heavily involved in the student's educational progression rather than the method of schooling.

[sanantone]

Okay, I see what you are wanting. I suppose this study will not answers those questions. It would be interesting research, I am sure.

Yes, all I'm asking for is sound statistical analysis. I have never thought that homeschooled children generally perform worse because homeschooled children usually have the advantage of being raised in a stable environment. The simple truth is that the overwhelming majority of single parents either don't have the education to or the means to homeschool their children. It is not fair to compare them with homeschooled children from two-parent homes and come to the conclusion that homeschooling is better. It is already known through sound research that students from single-parent homes perform worse.

[Leebo]

"94% of homeschoolers keep the faith and 93% continue to attend church after the high school years. But a shocking 75% to 85% of Christian children sent to public school drop out of church, and do not hold a Christian worldview after high school graduation."

Yeah, that's not doing much to remove the impression I had that homeschooling is the method of choice for indoctrination.

Doctrinal -- Many things taught in public school do not line up with the teachings of the Bible. Christian homeschool parents want their children to have a solid Biblical foundation when they are young, training "up a child in the way he should go, so that when he is old he will not depart from it." (Proverbs 22:6). We don't want our kids to be taught a postive view of evolution or homosexuality, or sex education. We want to teach them what the Bible says.

That's a shame, "How to have gay unprotected sex" was always my favorite class in public school.

[Kintsukuroi]

This is why education is individual. I can tell you that I homeschooled my children and they were living in a two parent home, one of which was violent and abusive, neither parent having more than a high school education, living in poverty and for the most part isolation (our nearest neighbors were two miles away and we traveled into town twice a week) and my daughter was still ahead of her class when she was put into public school. My daughter is still an A student, however, she really dislikes the constraints of public school. They are now living in a single parent home but that would not have changed the quality of education my children received had I still been homeschooling. IMO the most important factor of whether a child will be a successful student is whether the parent and/or child value education. My goal for my children and the most critical thing I did/do regarding their education is to try and instill a love of learning in my children. If I can be successful at that then my children can be successful in *any* school setting because then they will supplement their own education where it lacks. We're all living homeschooling here, of ourselves. That's what we are doing when we study for CLEP, DSST, etc. It's no different for children being guided by their parents.

[sanantone]

Yeah, that's not doing much to remove the impression I had that homeschooling is the method of choice for indoctrination.



That's a shame, "How to have gay unprotected sex" was always my favorite class in public school.

I must be old because I graduated in this century and didn't learn that stuff. My mother did teach me that people choose to be gay, but then, by using logic, I determined that that doesn't make any sense.

This is why education is individual. I can tell you that I homeschooled my children and they were living in a two parent home, one of which was violent and abusive, neither parent having more than a high school education, living in poverty and for the most part isolation (our nearest neighbors were two miles away and we traveled into town twice a week) and my daughter was still ahead of her class when she was put into public school. My daughter is still an A student, however, she really dislikes the constraints of public school. They are now living in a single parent home but that would not have changed the quality of education my children received had I still been homeschooling. IMO the most important factor of whether a child will be a successful student is whether the parent and/or child value education. My goal for my children and the most critical thing I did/do regarding their education is to try and instill a love of learning in my children. If I can be successful at that then my children can be successful in *any* school setting because then they will supplement their own education where it lacks. We're all living homeschooling here, of ourselves. That's what we are doing when we study for CLEP, DSST, etc. It's no different for children being guided by their parents.

I can top that! I grew up in a single-parent home where the parent was abusive, had mental health issues, was borderline mentally retarded, and did drugs. No, I'm not making this up. I'm working on my PhD despite having attended public schools, but I realize that I'm an outlier. Although, I still believe that I attended a good school district. The school district I attended is still lauded as being one of the best in my county.

[Kintsukuroi]

Are we trying to one up here? LOL

Our stories just go to show that successful students can come out of both homeschooling and public schooling It's not a is homeschooling is better or is public schooling better question. It's a what is best for *this* student question. To use a crude example, I don't think any homeschooling parent would advocate druggie parents homeschooling their kids. Obviously public school is the best place for those students. What I do have a problem with is states that essentially bar parents from homeschooling their children because because the regulations are so tight that it makes it almost impossible to do so for most parents.

[Leebo]

I must be old because I graduated in this century and didn't learn that stuff. My mother did teach me that people choose to be gay, but then, by using logic, I determined that that doesn't make any sense.

Oh yeah, nowadays learning how to be gay is very important. Thanks, Obama.