Harvard Extension School Students Rally for Degree Name Change

[collegecareerstudent]

unsubscribing from this garbage thread

Okay bye! No one is forcing you to be here.

[KSoul]

unsubscribing from this garbage thread

Okay bye! No one is forcing you to be here.

Lol...

[BrianFallon]

You did say the current president promised a name change. I didn't promise that. I also didn't campaign on that, either. I just want to clarify that. So, yes, I'd assume you would know my name if you're going to say I said something. I'd say it's logical to think that. And no, I don't use my actual name, but that hasn't stopped people from finding me, though I find that endearing and encouraging.

I didn't mean you specifically when I said people are suggesting I should stop fighting. When people are calling the comment thread dust and outright saying change isn't going to happen, it comes off as suggesting it's a moot point to even have the fight. That's where I disagree with several people. I'd say as an alum you have more sway than they do, but I just don't like the rhetoric that nothing will ever happen to make this better. Personally, I know what my degree name will say and I have accepted that, but I'm not fighting this fight for me.

You are correct in that HESA only has so much power. The Faculty of Arts and Sciences needs to put this on the agenda and they need to make the decision, but they haven't. I am going to have a push during fall semester when I move to Cambridge to try to stress the issue. Let me know if you want to be involved.

I waited 12 years before joining HES. During that time, I read up on these issues. So I'm not surprised, especially back then, but with the Crimson asking for change as well, and retracting their negative statements about HES, I really do feel the tide is turning. I just want people to care, because no President can bring forth the issue alone. We need support and numbers but with so many of us scattered all over the world, several students not knowing about HESA or having conflicting obligations, I sometimes, like prior presidents, feel like I'm screaming into a void.

I actually lost a 6 figure job over the naming issue and a Harvard College student sabotaging me, and another student just got an offer rescinded because of an employer's interpretation of the value of an HES degree, so it's a mixed bag. I'm delighted you haven't had a negative experience like that.

I do think if nothing else- allowing for IT degrees to be Master of Science except Liberal Arts is a good start in the right direction.

"I actually lost a 6 figure job over the naming issue and a Harvard College student sabotaging me"  You lost a six figure job over the name of a school that has not yet awarded you a degree?

[collegecareerstudent]

Yes. My recruiter was a Harvard College grad from previous years and he'd told me about this opportunity in one of the highest tech port cities in China. They'd had a vacancy for over a year in their Harvard division and one of their AI actors was leaving. They were desperate for a Harvard grad or anyone from Harvard at that point. I mentioned that I was a student at HES and that was not yet a graduate, but he said he'd talk to the company anyway. I'd already interviewed at their Beijing office but they closed their position due to restructuring, so I was already at a teaching job in another city at that point. 

We were honest about my in progress status, following all Career Services resume guidelines and writing in progress, and he mentioned everything to them, as I did in my interview and emails, and follow up documents. It ended up being a bait and switch type of situation due to being unable to market me officially, their words not mine. It was pretty rude how it was done. They offered me a job for 70% less, knowing I didn't have my prior employer to go back to at that point as I'd had to given 30 days notice. 

Fortunately for me the Beijing office called me back and said they were done restructuring. They at least had no issue with my HES status. I didn't make the same amount at all that was offered in the city in question, but they also didn't offer me 70 percent less. It was an ordeal, but I had a guardian angel that day.

[Imbanewbie]

Another update news - Degree Name Change https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/...-campaign/

[collegecareerstudent]

Another update news - Degree Name Change https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/...-campaign/

Thank you for sharing. I've been fighting really hard this year, promoting and funding this campaign alone. I'm not going to give up. I've also sponsored several resolutions with the Harvard Graduate Council to preserve Harvard's financial aid against congressional attempts to remove options from students. It's been an interesting year as President.

[smartdegree]

Another update news - Degree Name Change https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/...-campaign/

Thank you for sharing. I've been fighting really hard this year, promoting and funding this campaign alone. I'm not going to give up. I've also sponsored several resolutions with the Harvard Graduate Council to preserve Harvard's financial aid against congressional attempts to remove options from students. It's been an interesting year as President.

I'm just curious - why is there a focus on the specific name of the degree listed on the diploma? Wouldn't it make more sense to encourage Harvard to permit students to omit the "in Extension Studies" requirement from their resumes? If Harvard were to allow the designation "Master of Liberal Arts, Management, Harvard University" on resumes without the additional qualifier, wouldn't that be considered a victory?

Over a decade ago, it was perfectly acceptable to list the degree in this manner on a resume, according to the Harvard Extension School's website. However, at some point, which I can't precisely recall, the guidelines were amended to necessitate including "in Extension Studies" or "Extension School".

In my opinion, it would be more feasible to persuade Harvard's leadership to revert to a previously acceptable resume standard rather than to seek a modification of the official degree name.

Just my two cents.

[collegecareerstudent]

Yes. Very valid point. The resume standards have changed upwards of 8 times in the past decade. So, I have some experience in career advising and resume writing. It's been my part-time side job for some years now. The resume standards Harvard imposes on Extension students are drastically different from the other 13 Harvard schools. In addition, there is no law governing the standardization of the resume outside of official channels. It's frowned upon to not follow the standards- but it's nothing that can't be done. However, every now and again a graduate from HES who does just list Harvard University, ALM and their field is called a poser, liar, or attempting to portray themselves as from the college, so the stigma extends even there. I also can't, as a representative, say write whatever you want since I do represent both the student body and the school. Employers have also felt bamboozled by students not specifying their exact schools. HES career guidance services have struggled in setting  a standard that makes sense and is befitting of everyone.

At the end of the day, it's truly not a resume issue- it's a stigmatizing nomenclature issue that you rightfully stated extends into the resume guidelines. Correcting the degree names is a way to ensure the equity, integrity, and fairness of the degree while also delineating which school the degree is from.  I remain accessible to you in service and appreciate you caring about this issue whatsoever.

[smartdegree]

Yes. Very valid point. The resume standards have changed upwards of 8 times in the past decade. So, I have some experience in career advising and resume writing. It's been my part-time side job for some years now. The resume standards Harvard imposes on Extension students are drastically different from the other 13 Harvard schools. In addition, there is no law governing the standardization of the resume outside of official channels. It's frowned upon to not follow the standards- but it's nothing that can't be done. However, every now and again a graduate from HES who does just list Harvard University, ALM and their field is called a poser, liar, or attempting to portray themselves as from the college, so the stigma extends even there. I also can't, as a representative, say write whatever you want since I do represent both the student body and the school. Employers have also felt bamboozled by students not specifying their exact schools. HES career guidance services have struggled in setting  a standard that makes sense and is befitting of everyone.

At the end of the day, it's truly not a resume issue- it's a stigmatizing nomenclature issue that you rightfully stated extends into the resume guidelines. Correcting the degree names is a way to ensure the equity, integrity, and fairness of the degree while also delineating which school the degree is from.  I remain accessible to you in service and appreciate you caring about this issue whatsoever.

Here's a link to Harvard's resume policy on the Master of Liberal Arts from 2006:
https://web.archive.org/web/200610062004.../alm/help/

It says:

How can I present the ALM on my resume?

Harvard University offers the following degrees in Extension Studies:
Associate in Arts
Bachelor of Liberal Arts
Master of Liberal Arts

It is acceptable, therefore, to list the ALM degree on your resume in the following manner:

Harvard University, Master of Liberal Arts (ALM) in History

Unacceptable: Harvard University, MA in History

https://web.archive.org/web/200610062004.../alm/help/
Nothing there about "Extension Studies" or "Extension School".   It's ridiculous that somehow it got to today's standard without students having had a say. It's not fair for students back in 2006 to be able to do this but not today's students. Perhaps you can emphasize that point (fairness and equality).

[collegecareerstudent]

I agree that it's ridiculous- I suppose it won't hurt to attack those guidelines next. HESA plans, as part of the postcard campaign, which is actually a postcard and letter campaigning targeting the top 70 officials at Harvard individually, to send official letters on behalf of HESA, but I'm sending another one on behalf of myself. I'll be sure to bring that up then. It was already on my agenda to bring up before the Dean during our meeting in March.