Graduate school applications and pass/fail credits during undergrad?

[argentnox]

I am really nervous about having several pass/fail credits on my transcript for graduate school applications. I am trying to pad my application with a few select courses (human genetics, human bio, biochem or o-chem, humans in the environment) and get A's in order to essentially say, "Look, I can handle science courses just fine, it was just less expensive and time consuming to take several exams for credit rather than all courses." I also have some regular courses (all of my minour is from coursework, and I have some other credits from coursework...see my signature), all A's.

I am sitting on a 4.0 at the moment, with my name on the President's List for the past spring semester.

I should have solid letters of recommendation (one from a history professor that absolutely LOVES me, one from a psych professor that I spent a ton of time after class with--discussing the subject just because it was interesting, and hopefully one from either a researcher if I can manage to get research experience or from a biology professor).

I have a lot of volunteer time, both relating to biology and otherwise. I also intend to try to pack in some more. I will be helping underprivileged elementary students with biology once my background check clears (I do not foresee any problems there, just that background checks take forever).

I also did a lot of bio-related extracurriculars in high school. I raised and showed rabbits, poultry, and dogs. I was in 4-H and FFA (held leadership positions in both). I volunteered at University of California Davis small animal AND equine vet centres.

I am just really worried that the pass/fail credits will look like holes, especially since quite a bit of my majour credits are coming from the GRE. Plus, I am not likely to have the advantage of having any research experience because I have had to work and go to school throughout my entire degree. People want research assistance from people who can come on weekdays, during the day, not evenings or weekends.

Any tips for making my application more impressive to offset the pass/fail credits from exams? I want to get into the Molecular Biosciences program at University of Chicago, if at all possible.

I am closing in on one year (or less) until my undergrad degree is done, so I am really trying to make sure I get everything I need in.

[perrik]

When you use a subject GRE for Excelsior credit, it will be listed as Pass credit for X number of upper level and X number of lower level. It's not broken out into individual courses, it's just a lump of lower-level and a lump of upper-level.

Before you take any of the ECE bio exams, verify that these credits AND the courses you've already taken will be applied to your degree program if you also take the Bio or Chem GRE. It is possible that the individual exams AND the actual courses you took will be considered duplicate credit - in which case they'll be listed in your transcript as additional credits, but not counted towards the degree requirements. You don't want that!

As you're applying to a graduate molecular biosciences program at a highly competitive university, having individual named bio/chem courses on your transcript would almost certainly be preferable to "Biology: 12 credits LL, 18 credit UL".

Have you contacted the department yet? Perhaps they'd be willing to discuss admissions requirements and clarify how using lump bio and chem credits would affect your application's strength.

Having strong LORs will help a lot, as will your strong academic performance so far.

[cookderosa]

I just finished posting about your science exams. I think this is a legitimate concern. It might be helpful to call admissions at Chicago and tell them what you posted here. Tell them you are thinking about testing out of some classes, but will the pass/fail credit hurt your application. That's really the only way to know.
In about 80% of the posts, I would say testing doesn't hurt an applicant's chance at grad school admission - too many variables - but in a nutshell, it's a buyer's market. You can get into grad school. This question is about getting into THIS grad school. Not the same thing. I would LOVE to hear about any calls you make to them. Maybe they think testing is a mark of brightness!

[LatinTea]

Yes, do call the university and ask their policy on this. But I also wanted to say that you have an impressive amount of other 'credits' you can bring to them. Volunteering and 4-H will look very good to the admissions' department. With that in mind, you could include a letter of recommendation from someone in those areas of your life too.

Hey, maybe they want someone frugal in their department. Testing out certainly qualifies you for that!

[perrik]

Hey, maybe they want someone frugal in their department. Testing out certainly qualifies you for that!

Having dealt with the world of academic research in the biological sciences, yes, knowing how to use money efficiently is a valuable commodity. And rare, too!

(so is remembering to tell the HR coordinator that you hired a research assistant three weeks ago - you know, it's hard to convince Finance to pay someone that no one knows exists)

[argentnox]

Does anyone know how grad applications and unfinished credits work? There is a whole year between when applications have to be in and when I would actually start. That is a lot of time for me to pack in more actual classes if need be, but I am not sure if grad schools normally allow that? Do undergrads usually apply while still working on their undergrad degree, or do they get their degree then just suck it up and wait the year, fiddling their thumbs? It seems kind of counterproductive to me, if the second option is the most common. That is a whole year to forget everything you learned.

If I have that extra year, I am sure I can squeeze in at least 12 more credits to make a total of 24 total course credits in my majour instead of only 12. As long as EC will let me use those as my credits and just fill in the remaining with my subject GRE, of course. I will definitely ask EC about the bio GRE. I sure hope they are able to list the specific credits I have, or that really throws a wrench in my plans to graduate on time.

Also, what about taking courses AFTER I have my degree? i.e. if I already have my undergrad degree, but just take extra courses during the time while I am waiting?

Would you just mark on your application that you will be taking the classes during the interim?


I know I need to set up an appointment with a U of C counselor. I am hoping to have that done ASAP, but it is hard working around schedules! I work full time, and I am plowing through between 21 and 30 credits a semester. Just finding time to breathe means I am doing well for the day.

I think I will try to find a way to stress the fact that I had to support myself through college, so time and money were at a premium. Therefore, testing out of some courses was a very viable way for me to complete my degree in a timely manner. Maybe I can manage to slip in that I have done well on all of the exams I took. All of my CLEPs have been 65+/50, and my two DSSTs thus far have been...well, passable, but they were not exactly super important credits. 53/46 on Principals of Supervision and a 55/? on Ethics in America.

Provided I do well enough on my biology GRE (which I should, since I intend to basically become a hermit and use all of my free time studying for it), I am going to submit that score, as well.

I intend to do the same for my General GRE; just study my behind off and get a very high mark. I should do well on the verbal reasoning and writing portions, as I have always been a natural at both (though I still intend to study). The quantitative may give me a little more trouble, but I think with some serious studying, I should be able to handle it.

From everything I hear, the GPA and GRE score is mostly just a foot in the door. The personal statement is where the people really get sorted out. (Though I could be wrong?) So HOPEFULLY--if I am able to play up my personal statement well enough--the "blank" credits will not mean as much.

[cookderosa]

Does anyone know how grad applications and unfinished credits work? There is a whole year between when applications have to be in and when I would actually start. That is a lot of time for me to pack in more actual classes if need be, but I am not sure if grad schools normally allow that? Do undergrads usually apply while still working on their undergrad degree, or do they get their degree then just suck it up and wait the year, fiddling their thumbs? It seems kind of counterproductive to me, if the second option is the most common. That is a whole year to forget everything you learned.

You apply in your "senior" year, this is normal. You should have over 90 credits when you apply. Admission is conditional upon completion of your degree.

If I have that extra year, I am sure I can squeeze in at least 12 more credits to make a total of 24 total course credits in my majour instead of only 12.

No, redundant. Is the program you are applying to different than your major? If so, you really want to discuss the possibility of being admitted in that situation. In any event, if you can't get in with 12 credits, then you need to delay undergrad graduation. Do a double major adding the field you hope to enter, and reapply.

As long as EC will let me use those as my credits and just fill in the remaining with my subject GRE, of course. I will definitely ask EC about the bio GRE. I sure hope they are able to list the specific credits I have, or that really throws a wrench in my plans to graduate on time.

Also, what about taking courses AFTER I have my degree? i.e. if I already have my undergrad degree, but just take extra courses during the time while I am waiting?

Would you just mark on your application that you will be taking the classes during the interim?

No. Once you apply for graduation and graduate, your transcript is closed. Additional credits go on a new transcript or as a subtext depending on how the college does it.

I know I need to set up an appointment with a U of C counselor. I am hoping to have that done ASAP, but it is hard working around schedules! I work full time, and I am plowing through between 21 and 30 credits a semester. Just finding time to breathe means I am doing well for the day.

I think I will try to find a way to stress the fact that I had to support myself through college, so time and money were at a premium. Therefore, testing out of some courses was a very viable way for me to complete my degree in a timely manner. Maybe I can manage to slip in that I have done well on all of the exams I took. All of my CLEPs have been 65+/50, and my two DSSTs thus far have been...well, passable, but they were not exactly super important credits. 53/46 on Principals of Supervision and a 55/? on Ethics in America.

Yes, just don't make it sound like you can't give the new program your attention. I don't know what program you are apply to, I'm assuming it is a full time PhD, so you'll be up against applicants for whom that is their world- not an afterthought. I'm sorry to be blunt- just helping you think of ways to spin your situation to your advantage without shooting yourself in the foot. I'm not questioning your commitment- just playing devil's advocate on your argument.

Provided I do well enough on my biology GRE (which I should, since I intend to basically become a hermit and use all of my free time studying for it), I am going to submit that score, as well.

I intend to do the same for my General GRE; just study my behind off and get a very high mark. I should do well on the verbal reasoning and writing portions, as I have always been a natural at both (though I still intend to study). The quantitative may give me a little more trouble, but I think with some serious studying, I should be able to handle it.

From everything I hear, the GPA and GRE score is mostly just a foot in the door. The personal statement is where the people really get sorted out. (Though I could be wrong?) So HOPEFULLY--if I am able to play up my personal statement well enough--the "blank" credits will not mean as much.

I agree. A high GPA and GRE will be heavily weighted. I wish you the best!

[argentnox]

I am a biology majour going into molecular biosciences for a PhD.

Believe me, I would rather people be blunt and prevent me from making a mistake before it is to late!

Come time for my application I should have 102 credits, if I do not count my subject GRE at all.

Now, I just went and looked at Excelsior's upper level bio classes, and their upper level courses all seem to be 3 credits. The lab they have seems to be offered separately, and is in conjunction with an introductory biology course.

https://www.excelsior.edu/Excelsior_Coll...&LEVEL=L,U

I am getting 3 UL from my upcoming Humans in the Environment course through Park University. I cannot really get any more bio credits from Park, though, so if the GRE route will not work, I may have to go through EC.

If I have to, since I basically have an extra year I did not account for, I should be able to fit in more bio coursework, as long as I can find it all via online courses.

After my Humans in the Environment course, I will still need 7 LL and 15 UL.

I just talked to EC, and they say if I take the GRE, the transcripts will show up as Lump...however...any classes I have in actual Bio will push those credits out of the Bio Major. So the credits I do have from classes will show up as actual course credits.

Then, defendant upon what U o C says, if I take a few more actual courses (such as microbio for a LL and at least one more UL), hopefully I will be okay.

Though if I do not take the GRE, that leaves me with a free semester to finish up my LL requirements. Then I only need 12 UL credits (3-4 classes), and a year's worth of time to complete it. That is only a class per semester.

Okay, I can stop holding my breath and get out of panic mode now. It will be much more harmful on my pocketbook if I have to go that route, but it is still doable.

[cookderosa]

I wouldn't rush to decide. Looking at the link you provided, you are correct about the 1 credit add on lab- usually, but maybe not in this case, schools want you to do them as corequisites.

A few months back, I found a TON, and I mean a TON of online sciences with labs. Cheap too. I'll post a few links for you or anyone following this thread. The coolest ones were through Ocean, but they were way out of my budget LOL.

When you meet with your Chicago advisor (which should be ASAP even if by email/phone) you need to ask what your undergrad transcript should look like. For example, ask how many lab credits is expected of a typical applicant? What courses? What about research and statistics? Should you have research experience, and does it hurt you not having a letter from a research advisor? What do they think of EC's policy of awarding credit for the GRE? (*if you score high and DON'T use it for credit, I think that's a feather in your cap) These are the meat and potatoes of your decision and planning in my opinion. I'm just tossing out things to think about, but I would love to walk with you and support you through this process. I don't think we have had anyone from our board here apply to that university, especially as a PhD student....so if you get in, you'd be a bit of a rock star hilarious

Ocean County College: Academics (my favorite, but with $900 lab pacs and $200 text books, these classes come in at around $2,200 each!!? But how cool to disect a fetal pig in your own kitchen LOL)

Admissions Policies (Clovis Community College. Cheapest online labs/science classes around, I know lots of people who attend here )

EICCD - Eastern Iowa Community College District (this is where I teach, we offer a lot of online sciences with labs for about $130/cr)

[NAP]

A couple of months ago, a forum member posted a note from a friend - "He is currently a postdoc fellow doing research in a genetics lab @ University of Chicago." Here is the thread:

http://www.degreeforum.net/general-educa...ks-us.html

Maybe you could send her a PM and make a connection with him, which could be helpful some day.

I'm glad to see that EC said the Bio GRE will not erase your course credits. When do think you will take it? Let us know how it goes.