Future of College Tuition post Covid 19

[bluebooger]

OK - that's four times. I get it. You don't like dead languages. I do.

nobody should take out a student loan to get a bachelors in dead languages (not saying you did, but in today's society it's a waste of money) 
nobody in the US should take out a loan to get a bachelors in English  -- again, waste of money 

NYU is $27 000 per SEMESTER                       
https://www.nyu.edu/students/student-inf...credits=12


now of course students get grants and scholarships                    
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/02/it-costs...y-pay.html

but still --- it looks like the average federal loan amount per first time student is $5180  
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=...900#finaid 

and if you're borrowing $5 000 to study Museum Studies or Hellenic Studies and a minor in Ancient Studies for one semester then you're wasting money

[monchevy]

OK - that's four times. I get it. You don't like dead languages. I do.

nobody should take out a student loan to get a bachelors in dead languages (not saying you did, but in today's society it's a waste of money) 
nobody in the US should take out a loan to get a bachelors in English  -- again, waste of money 

NYU is $27 000 per SEMESTER                       
https://www.nyu.edu/students/student-inf...credits=12


now of course students get grants and scholarships                    
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/02/it-costs...y-pay.html

but still --- it looks like the average federal loan amount per first time student is $5180  
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=...900#finaid 

and if you're borrowing $5 000 to study Museum Studies or Hellenic Studies and a minor in Ancient Studies for one semester then you're wasting money

A degree in English is pretty useful (and often required) for getting a job in editing, copy editing, proofreading or writing.

[ss20ts]

OK - that's four times. I get it. You don't like dead languages. I do.

nobody should take out a student loan to get a bachelors in dead languages (not saying you did, but in today's society it's a waste of money) 
nobody in the US should take out a loan to get a bachelors in English  -- again, waste of money 

NYU is $27 000 per SEMESTER                       
https://www.nyu.edu/students/student-inf...credits=12


now of course students get grants and scholarships                    
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/02/it-costs...y-pay.html

but still --- it looks like the average federal loan amount per first time student is $5180  
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=...900#finaid 

and if you're borrowing $5 000 to study Museum Studies or Hellenic Studies and a minor in Ancient Studies for one semester then you're wasting money

A degree in English is pretty useful (and often required) for getting a job in editing, copy editing, proofreading or writing.

But how many jobs are actually available in those fields you listed? In many areas, there are literally no jobs available in these fields. Newspapers and magazines nationwide are shutting down every week. 

One woman I know who earned her BA in English from a well respected local university could only find a job as an administrative assistant. yup. Barely making over minimum wage with a bachelor's degree. She had had enough of not being able to find a job using her degree in the metro she lived in and went back to school to earn another degree in graphic design so she had a useful skill. Guess who had no problem landing a decent paying job, with full benefits, and promotional opportunities after completing her graphic design degree?

[rachel83az]

But the general ed requirements are all things you already just passed in high school. Right now, the first year of college is essentially Grade 12 all over again. Which is extremely profitable, but if the student passed those subjects already, that should be enough. If they didn't pass, they should still be in high school until they do. And for some of us, we passed it decades ago, have never used it, and are at the point in our career where we don't need to go back to the drawing board and relearn stuff we already passed and will never use... just to have a piece of paper that supposedly means we're not complete dingbats. 

The thing is... the student may have taken the class and may have gotten a passing HS grade and was able to graduate but that does NOT mean anything in the US like it does in Europe. There are literally students graduating who are illiterate not because they have a learning disability but because the school/teachers didn't care enough to teach them. And it's not a modern thing either. My mother (a bit older than you) told me about how she took Geometry in HS. The teacher spent class showing off his vacation pictures with his hot young girlfriend rather than teaching math. The students loved it because it was an easy A in the class. But if any of them went on to college then I'm sure that they struggled mightily.

But how many jobs are actually available in those fields you listed? In many areas, there are literally no jobs available in these fields. Newspapers and magazines nationwide are shutting down every week. 

One woman I know who earned her BA in English from a well respected local university could only find a job as an administrative assistant. yup. Barely making over minimum wage with a bachelor's degree. She had had enough of not being able to find a job using her degree in the metro she lived in and went back to school to earn another degree in graphic design so she had a useful skill. Guess who had no problem landing a decent paying job, with full benefits, and promotional opportunities after completing her graphic design degree?

There are a lot, actually. It's going to vary depending on the area, of course, but that doesn't mean it's a worthless degree. There are still areas of the country that are technologically behind enough that a CS degree isn't going to land you any jobs either. That doesn't mean a CS degree is worthless.

One big area for people with English degrees is getting a job as a technical writer. You write and/or proofread instruction manuals for all kinds of things. Technical writers get paid good money for what they do, too. And if you're only looking local, then you're missing out on huge sectors of the job market these days. Plenty of companies allow you to work remote for things like this, even before the pandemic, because they can't find enough local people to do what needs to be done.

[monchevy]

But the general ed requirements are all things you already just passed in high school. Right now, the first year of college is essentially Grade 12 all over again. Which is extremely profitable, but if the student passed those subjects already, that should be enough. If they didn't pass, they should still be in high school until they do. And for some of us, we passed it decades ago, have never used it, and are at the point in our career where we don't need to go back to the drawing board and relearn stuff we already passed and will never use... just to have a piece of paper that supposedly means we're not complete dingbats. 

The thing is... the student may have taken the class and may have gotten a passing HS grade and was able to graduate but that does NOT mean anything in the US like it does in Europe. There are literally students graduating who are illiterate not because they have a learning disability but because the school/teachers didn't care enough to teach them. And it's not a modern thing either. My mother (a bit older than you) told me about how she took Geometry in HS. The teacher spent class showing off his vacation pictures with his hot young girlfriend rather than teaching math. The students loved it because it was an easy A in the class. But if any of them went on to college then I'm sure that they struggled mightily.

But how many jobs are actually available in those fields you listed? In many areas, there are literally no jobs available in these fields. Newspapers and magazines nationwide are shutting down every week. 

One woman I know who earned her BA in English from a well respected local university could only find a job as an administrative assistant. yup. Barely making over minimum wage with a bachelor's degree. She had had enough of not being able to find a job using her degree in the metro she lived in and went back to school to earn another degree in graphic design so she had a useful skill. Guess who had no problem landing a decent paying job, with full benefits, and promotional opportunities after completing her graphic design degree?

There are a lot, actually. It's going to vary depending on the area, of course, but that doesn't mean it's a worthless degree. There are still areas of the country that are technologically behind enough that a CS degree isn't going to land you any jobs either. That doesn't mean a CS degree is worthless.

One big area for people with English degrees is getting a job as a technical writer. You write and/or proofread instruction manuals for all kinds of things. Technical writers get paid good money for what they do, too. And if you're only looking local, then you're missing out on huge sectors of the job market these days. Plenty of companies allow you to work remote for things like this, even before the pandemic, because they can't find enough local people to do what needs to be done.

Websites have copy. So does advertising. I have freelance clients such as universities, self-publishing authors, independent book publishers and content marketing agencies, on top of my copy-related day job at an ad agency. These types of jobs require editors, proofreaders and writers. Then there's legal and medical/pharma proofreading, which is another area entirely. (And where all the money is.)

[ss20ts]

For adult learners coming back to school to complete a degree or earn a second one, the rules should be different and definitely more skills-focused. While I think that having a strong working knowledge of things like algebra and basic statistics and such is useful, it should depend on the degree or skills associated with the degree. Likewise with sciences... forcing a science and lab on people who don't ever plan to work in the sciences serves more to frustrate adult learners and keeps them from returning to college.

Science was one of the reasons I didn't complete my bachelor's degree after completing my 2 associates degrees. Every 4 year school I looked at, I needed more science and more math. I struggled so much with both and the degree wasn't valuable enough to me at the time to get over it and deal with it. It's hard to deal with a class when you're bad at it. I was really worried when I applied to CSU Global that I would need more science and math, but they walked me through everything and said there's alternatives - don't panic. They hear this from a lot of students. I was able to complete my science and math requirements with Sophia haven't paid anything for them.

The other issue I had was graduating with an AAS from a community college, I took most of the required business courses for a 4 year degree. The problem was transferring those credits. They're all 100-200 level because they're from a community college. The 4 year schools around me used the same textbooks and the courses were 300-400 level courses. Because of the course level difference, I needed to repeat almost all of my business courses which I was not willing to do. I paid for them and earned decent grades. I made Dean's List and President's List. What more do you want from a student? Besides a goat, kidney, and an arm, and a leg? One school offered me a small scholarship for transferring, but it was still going to take 4 more years because of the transfer issue......4 more freaking years after I had just completed 2 years. That sounded like a life sentence. 

These obstacles caused me to give up and move on with life which I imagine is what happens to many people. They give up because of the obstacles put in front of them. So few people know about earning alternative credits and the Big 3. I don't attend a Big 3, but I did consider transferring. I have so few classes left at CSU that it wasn't worth it. I won't graduate any faster by transferring now. I have 6 courses left once I complete this term in 3 weeks. So I have 3 more terms. The terms are 8 weeks long and you take 2 classes per term. Come February, I'll FINALLY be done.