For those that say CLEP is "cheating"

[Bibby]

I've always learned at least as much from studying for a CLEP as I have trudging through a conventional class. I can't think of much you lose by taking a CLEP exam, other than the experience writing formal papers and the social interaction - both of which can be earned by doing other things.

[bassinbros]

There have been studies done, and people who study one subject at a time heavily for a short period of time retain more information then the people who study multiple subjects at a time for a longer period. So generally when someone studies a topic for a CLEP for 4-5 hours for a week or two will retain more information in then the folks who study 5 subjects in a college for an entire semester.

I took the Biology CLEP back in February, and just so you know, biology is my LEAST favorite subject. FCP recently came out with a PT for Bio, and I haven't touched a lick of Bio since my CLEP (3+ months) and got 60% correct on the PT. That's not great but between hating Bio and not touching it for over 3 months I was surprised not only at my score, but at how much I remembered. Okay, I know it's weird that I took a PT for a test I already passed and in a topic I dislike, but I really like FCP's PTs and I was just pretty bored at the time.

I definitely agree that studying a specific subject with a higher concentration results in greater learning and retention. Since I was home-schooled, I was able to tailor my studies so that I was only studying one or two subjects at a time. I certainly enjoyed learning this way, and I was able to remember what I learned much better.

BTW, I am taking the BIO CLEP this Thursday and was wondering how close FCP's practice test is to the real exam?

[Publius]

I definitely agree that studying a specific subject with a higher concentration results in greater learning and retention. Since I was home-schooled, I was able to tailor my studies so that I was only studying one or two subjects at a time. I certainly enjoyed learning this way, and I was able to remember what I learned much better.

BTW, I am taking the BIO CLEP this Thursday and was wondering how close FCP's practice test is to the real exam?

As you know from my other post, I took the BIO CLEP over 3 months ago, so I'm a bit rusty on the CLEP itself (especially since I've taken multiple tests since then). However I found FCP's PT fairly accurate, it may of been a tad easier because most of the questions on FCP's PT are fact oriented. On the real CLEP you'll have to be able to apply the facts. The REA PTs are easier then the CLEP and Petersons PT are harder (I found the 2nd Peterson PT to be the most accurate). Anyway, back to FCP, I'd suggest to be sure you're scoring 75% or higher. All in all, FCP is a decent gauge. Make sure if you haven't done so already to go through the Specific Exam Feedback Area! Loads of info there!!

[jt003806]

[quote=Publius]There have been studies done, and people who study one subject at a time heavily for a short period of time retain more information then the people who study multiple subjects at a time for a longer period. So generally when someone studies a topic for a CLEP for 4-5 hours for a week or two will retain more information in then the folks who study 5 subjects in a college for an entire semester.

I would like to see one of these studies; every scientific study I have read contradicts your claim that cramming is good for long term memory. You are delusional if you think passing a multiple choice exam, with a relatively low percentage of correct answers needed to pass, is equivalent to class at a decent school.
I did both- brick & mortar political science at a top tier private school & a BSBA @ TESC, 22 years later w/ the purpose of avoiding MBA foundation courses. CLEP & DSST do not require one to demonstrate critical thinking. I am not putting them down or discounting their worth; I just find the claim that they are superior to a semester long class at a reputable school to be absurd.

[Publius]

I would like to see one of these studies; every scientific study I have read contradicts your claim that cramming is good for long term memory. You are delusional if you think passing a multiple choice exam, with a relatively low percentage of correct answers needed to pass, is equivalent to class at a decent school.
I did both- brick & mortar political science at a top tier private school & a BSBA @ TESC, 22 years later w/ the purpose of avoiding MBA foundation courses. CLEP & DSST do not require one to demonstrate critical thinking. I am not putting them down or discounting their worth; I just find the claim that they are superior to a semester long class at a reputable school to be absurd.

To be honest I'd have to go find the studies, it's been some time since I came across them. However, I was not implying that cramming was good for long term memory. It was the fact that studying one subject for a shorter period of time was in most cases better then studying multiple subjects over a longer period of time.

[cannoda]

[quote=Publius]There have been studies done, and people who study one subject at a time heavily for a short period of time retain more information then the people who study multiple subjects at a time for a longer period. So generally when someone studies a topic for a CLEP for 4-5 hours for a week or two will retain more information in then the folks who study 5 subjects in a college for an entire semester.

I would like to see one of these studies; every scientific study I have read contradicts your claim that cramming is good for long term memory. You are delusional if you think passing a multiple choice exam, with a relatively low percentage of correct answers needed to pass, is equivalent to class at a decent school.
I did both- brick & mortar political science at a top tier private school & a BSBA @ TESC, 22 years later w/ the purpose of avoiding MBA foundation courses. CLEP & DSST do not require one to demonstrate critical thinking. I am not putting them down or discounting their worth; I just find the claim that they are superior to a semester long class at a reputable school to be absurd.

I'm not sure how many of the courses that CLEP and DSST covers, typically at the 100-200 level , involve much critical thinking at most universities. These are the classes that are the most likely to be taught by teaching assistants and/or in huge lecture halls with assessment through multiple-choice tests.

Toss in attendance points, generous extra-credit for who knows what, and huge inconsistencies in what and how the material is taught and we have the start of an argument for the superiority of CLEP.

[Prloko]

[quote=Publius]There have been studies done, and people who study one subject at a time heavily for a short period of time retain more information then the people who study multiple subjects at a time for a longer period. So generally when someone studies a topic for a CLEP for 4-5 hours for a week or two will retain more information in then the folks who study 5 subjects in a college for an entire semester.

I would like to see one of these studies; every scientific study I have read contradicts your claim that cramming is good for long term memory. You are delusional if you think passing a multiple choice exam, with a relatively low percentage of correct answers needed to pass, is equivalent to class at a decent school.
I did both- brick & mortar political science at a top tier private school & a BSBA @ TESC, 22 years later w/ the purpose of avoiding MBA foundation courses. CLEP & DSST do not require one to demonstrate critical thinking. I am not putting them down or discounting their worth; I just find the claim that they are superior to a semester long class at a reputable school to be absurd.

I have seen some reputable schools (depending on the difficulty of the class) that require students to get about a 60% average for a C. My BYU accounting class calls for a 40-50% grade for a C (but I must admit the class is tough and I'm just squeaking a B+). I have a friend who went to UCONN (not the greatest school, but a good, reputable one) who told me he slept through half his classes and crammed on midterm/finals week to pass, he was drunk 1/3 of the week, I know because I used to party with him.
Of course, CLEP can't cover everything and shouldn't (i.e. Engineering and hands on fields), but CLEP is a good measure of knowledge on a subject, and some of the refreshed DSSTs are more difficult than an actual class (like business math and finance). Also, keep in mind that CLEP and DSST guage their passing scores based on comparable knowledge of C students at universities. That means that the superior B&M student can only regurgitate 50% of the knowledge they just learned prior to taking the CLEP. CLEP and DSST students merely match this skill of a C student, and as you can see on this site, many of the CLEP/DSST students surpass the standards.

CLEP/DSST isn't anywhere near the caliber of a Harvard course, but students at Harvard are naturally top students to begin with and not your run of the mill "average" student. On a tangent though, I think college age students should take the actual courses, especially in their major since they train intangibles that cannot be measured on a GPA.

[irnbru]

There are a few ideas which have been touched upon and peoples' comments are interesting.

First, and probably the most relevant, is assessment. How does the course assess if learning has occurred? An acid test for comparison between CLEP/DSST and a traditional school might be asking if a traditional school would be happy using the CLEP format. In most subjects, this is probably not going to happen; the question is why?

Historically, waving a very broad brush, we can see humanities and social sciences leaning heavily toward written work and the use of references. Meanwhile, hard sciences would likely tend to present problems requiring multi-stage solutions and practical work. Business subjects might sit somewhere between both these aproaches, additionally requiring project-style work.

Meanwhile, whatever the syllabus is, certain outcomes must be achieved. Traditional assessment usually breaks down this evaluation of achievement across weighted quizzes, mid-terms, projects and finals. A CLEP is a one-shot deal. The former enables a progressive testing of candidates, with a capacity for reflection and adjustment while the latter is all-or-nothing. If an individual were presented with the option of sitting/submitting all tests and projects at once, would their results still be considered a true reflection of their achievement of the learning outcomes and a fair assessment? I don't see why not, if anything, they are probably disadvantaged.

Moving onto a common sore point brings up the key topic of the multiple-choice format of CLEPs compared to other forms of evaluation. Is the multiple-choice test format easier than the 'long solution' format? On the one hand a candidate in multiple-choice tests is always going to score some points. On the other, they will never receive credit for partial solutions or showing working. Multiple-choice tests might enable a candidate to eliminate known incorrect answers but they will not receive credit for writing style, structure and appropriate citations/references, i.e. they test knowledge and understanding of the subject, rather than more general academic skills. Lastly, the test environment is relatively clinical and timed; this means a candidate does not have the luxury of building up a piece of work over a period of time with access to reference material and mentoring.

Consequently what would this discussion look like if schools permitted students to directly access their assessment procedures without a requirement for participating in their teaching? I believe students would certainly direct their efforts and time onto studying explicitly to pass exams and papers - it's what most students do, anyway. Passing is a primary objective for students with a good result a very-close secondary consideration. CLEP results are roughly graded on a t-distribution with an approximate sd of 10, which provides a very good indication of how well an individual has performed.

Finally, a CLEP is not a degree. The reason this obvious point is stated explicitly is that individual subjects cummulate toward the overall objective - assessing whether a candidate has met the outcomes sufficient and necessary to be awarded a degree. This is precisely why Charter Oak and Excelsior have introduced their Capstone courses. These courses bring together a student's total knowledge and understanding and require them to produce work in a variety of modes; written papers, discussion groups, oral presentations and projects. So, while a student can choose whether to achieve educational assessment outcomes (credit!) over the entire course of their degree through direct tests or more traditional courses, they will have participated in and demonstrated proficiency of the spectrum of assessment formats. In the traditional Capstone course format, I'd say the CLEP student has the advantage of both their accumulated knowledge and understanding and their (arguably superior) capacity for locating and extracting relevant and useful content to be applied. This last point is worth reflecting on as a measure of general study skills.

Hmm, ended up writing more than anticipated but I hope it gets the point across!

[cookderosa]

Who uses CLEP and how much credit is awarded is up to each individual college, so a person who is genuinely concerned should make an appointment to see their academic dean and voice their concerns. Maybe they could even petition to be heard at a committee meeting?

Is CLEP cheating? Clearly I think it isn't. What to say to someone who thinks it is? Shrug your shoulders. The end.

For those who want to take on industry-wide academic integrity and standards of evaluation, more power to them. For me? I need my brain space for other things.

[Mhamilton5]

I posted a question Friday night requesting tips to convince loved ones and got a couple great leads. After searching for hours found several power points and actual studies to measure CBE vs the class room. Many of these can be viewed here: Conference Presentations

It was very useful for me.

"Sore losers are the folks who claim that cheating
Is part of their opponent's strategy,
They can't accept that someone is defeating,
Their game-play, though they do appear to be.

Sore losers are the players who will blame the tools,
Marked cards and weighted dice, as if they lost,
Because the other player broke the rules,
Though never learn to balance up the cost."

Mike