Ethical caution

[Kiwi Lover]

Well if we are going to start censoring posts, because some-self-appointed-Nazi thinks it is Test Compromise, I am out of here!

iceman, I take serious offense at your Nazi comment. I think it is a major insult to the moderators (myself included) who were appointed as such by Steve Gloer (webmaster). We were asked to help monitor the IC forum and to uphold the quality and integrity of this forum. I think we have done a fairly good job of that so far.

As to censoring any of the feedback in the Feedback forum, I think we should let Steve Gloer be the final judge regarding how to handle any feedback that lists specific questions that were on their version of the exam. (I personally think that there are very few "questionable" posts, considering the sheer volume of the posts made.)

Finally, on a positive note (which this thread needs), I would like to say that I think that everyone has done an excellent job of providing helpful feedback, which so many have benefited from. It gave me great satisfaction to help get the Feedback section started last year, and I want to thank all of you who have taken the time to contribute and "pay it forward" and helped to create a very valuable tool for all IC members.

[Epiphany]

Well if we are going to start censoring posts, because some-self-appointed-Nazi thinks it is Test Compromise, I am out of here!

When I finish my Degree, I will come back and start pointing fingers and making B.S allegations!

While I rarely add anything of value to these debates, I at least do not compare internet forum moderation to genecide and mass propaganda. That was pretty far out of line. You owe several million people an apology.

You mention:
A: your leaving, because there are Nazi's here.
B: You're coming back.

I vote option A.

[keylargo_diver]

This post has almost inspired me to change my testing schedule to take the ethics exam sooner. I find it very interesting the level of conformity that a one sided agreement can instill in some members of the forum. Some have insinuated that people could use more integrity, some have inferred that posting test answers is somehow "illegal". Some have disregarded the original statement and proposed that posting some of the information is OK and not unethical but that other who post more information are unethical. Even if that's not what the "agreement" says.

Has anyone questioned whether these types of agreement are fair and ethical? Does it bother anyone they must give up all there rights to speech about the test in order to take it? Do you feel you are being unethical if you don't report the "perpetrator". I had already purchased the material and invested time studying before I ever saw the agreement I had to sign, to take the test. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Do the people who feel strongly about the College Board agreement apply the same test to all their software EULAs, music CDs, DVDs, etc?

The the college board sells "official' CLEP prep material. Would it be ethical if the material they sell doesn't represent the material on the actual test? Same goes for all the companies that sell prep material. How would they and you know if their material is relevant to the test if no one who has taken a test can talk about it? Really, think about it, a little anyway.

I was going to post some of the fears expressed here but it's time for me to go back to studying.

By the way I passed the Intro to Sociology CLEP today with a 75. I would like to thank InstantCert, and the members of the forum who contributed in guiding my independent study to make that possible. Really Thanks to all of you. I think this is a tremendous resource.

[iceman]

Apologies for speaking out? Uh, no.

I call it like I see it.

I do not see any cheating, going on with these boards, unless people are using PM to do it. And insinuating that people are over the line and test compromising, or giving away answers is bogus.

If people want to act like Nazis, or point fingers, have your ducks in a row and back it up with proof, instead of jumping to conclusions or assumptions, and we know where assuming will get you.

I am a Paying Customer just like everyone else, and I should be able to state my opinions, no matter how uncouth they may be.

And , Yes I will be taking the "Ethics in America" DSST soon.

[goldpaws]

I absolutely agree with censoring the specific feedback section - it should be done and should have already been done.

While there are "several" versions of the test, and I've retaken quite a few, I (usually) don't find the test or the questions any more difficult or different than the previous (exact) test. Sometimes the retake tests are identical, sometimes they're only partially identical. I won't tell ya which one is EXACT because that's the fun part about retaking tests. :p I have, however, encountered tests where the specific feedback was so specific (to a T) that I could predict almost exactly what was on the test. Too much info? Maybe ..!

Actually, any information posted here in this forum should not be anything more than information found in any test self-help booklet (college board practice tests, kaplan, petersons). Specific mentioning of questions and such can cause a test(s) to be thrown out.

Remember! There are a pile of warnings and agreements BEFORE the test starts. You (as I am) are bound to those by clicking the "OK" button many times over and over. No big disclosures!

I do understand with the "freedom of speech" and "nazi" thing.
However there's a difference between freedom of speech and infringement of a copyrighted test.
And the moderators here are not "nazis" - seriously - I've met nazis. They're creepy. And I've participated on MANY boards of MANY subjects. When I first arrived I actually felt the moderators were not doing much on this board/not very active (or if they were, they hid themselves well behind the scenes!).
I, myself, have moderated before and I'm going to have to encourage a poll on this subject since it seems a split issue. Who wants a poll?! One person, one vote has never failed us (ok, let's not try to dig too deep on trying to disprove that, lol, to the history buffs out there)

[thatbrian]

I was so happy when I found this forum - now - not so much.

A careful reading of the original post is in order for some who obviously, by thier comments, have never really done. There is nothing inflammatory about Gary's question and comments. He couldn't have been more polite in bringing this up. We all have the choice to accept the terms of the testing companies or not. If we don't like the terms we can simply: NOT TAKE THE TEST. It's a free country, take the class if you don't like the terms.

Gary is correct in being cautious about revealing things on this board that we have agreed not to. The question is what are we bound to exactly. I think that was one of the points of the post in the first place!!! The owner(s) and moderators have a responsibility to delete posts that in anyway violate the terms of the agreements (that we all said "yes" to) with the various testing companies.

BTW, I have a CLEP in about 24 hrs. Wow, I almost forgot why I was here...

Brian

[Lindagerr]

I do not beleive Gary in his original post meant to point any fingers. He may be finished with his exams, but I am only half done with mine.

I have been a member of this board for over a year and I agree with what Gary was trying to say. THe Exam specific Feedback was getting too specific. It could easily have been well intentioned posters(I may have been among them) that just wanted to add something, But with all the great information already there we dug to deep and divulged too much.

I think Gary's post was just a wake up call. Think before you write! I need to feel I did not go over the line in revealing test questions or specific answers. If I did unintentionally do this, then it is the Moderators job to make a decision about not censoring it, but removing it with cause, to protect the reputation and integrity of this board.

DSST, CLEP. TESC, ECE officials know we are here we do not hide. I would not want the board to become a banned or unreliable product.

I also don't want to see specific answers and questions posted, not just because I feel it is cheating, but because then I might limit my study to that answer. What happens then If I get a different test version without that question. I waste my time looking for that one and maybe mess up other ones. As in the orogonal posting I would rather be told " Know the generals involved in all the major battles" Then KNow So & SO was the General at Such & such battle.

This has been a very active heated thread, it was never meant to stir up so much emotion I just think a little self reflection is called for. I want my son to start taking CLEP and join this board. I want him to Graduate somewhere down the line with a degree that may not be conventional , but that is not reguarded as of lower quality because the integrity of the exams has been lowered.

Being one of the older members of this board according to the age pole in the oldest 3% maybe my values are old fashioned, but personal integrity is something that should never go out of fashion. Make sure you are maintaining your integrity before you post.

[ShotoJuku]

[COLOR="Navy"]OK folks -

The bottom line is this.......

If any member should post flagrant word for word questions coming directly an exam the post may end up being removed to prevent cheating and/or preserve the integrity of the forums - period!

But how is this going to be fully, accurately, and correctly determined?

This may end up being quite an impossible task.

How about those recycled questions that currently appear in the official CLEP guide that have (I've seen them) appear in a current exam? Is it cheating to use the answer that was so thoughtfully, or is that accidentally or was it perhaps intentionally published?

NO it is not cheating but a rather fortuitous situation - period.

Even REA gets really close to quoting some exact word for word questions - this is not cheating - period.

Advising others what they should know and lookout for is not cheating - period. Hell I've been in classes (and so have many of you) when a teacher conducts a lesson lecture or exam review they may often remark, "you may see this again." Is this cheating? NO - just positive re-enforcement - period.

The bottom line is that no one should look to or promote cheating - period.[/COLOR]

[Farmerboy]

I agree completely with the previous four posters. We have all agreed by taking CLEP and Dantes to abide by their rules. The difference between actual question being posted and actual question on any study material is probably obvious but needs stating anyways. In the study material they don't tell you it is an actual question while in a post you know that that question is on at least one version of the test.
I am disappointed that some people here value free speech so much that a direct violation of the law is inconsequential to them. Calling the moderators "Nazi's" doesn't help the situation either.

Farmerboy

[Shadowless]

Nice to see this thread is still alive and well! hilarious