Did you receive a non-accredited degree / degree mill degree? (Interview Opportunity)

[freeloader]

Worth noting that we don’t know what the OP’s research questions are. Conflating unaccredited with degree mill could be intentional, but could equally be demonstrative of a particular group of biases carried by OP and much of the academic community. It would actually be interesting to test if people self-identify as having unaccredited degrees when, in reality, their degrees are accredited. Likewise, would be interesting to test the amount of understanding that people have about what degree of legitimacy their unaccredited degree has. Previously accredited, seeking accreditation, religious exemption, “conscientious“ objections, state licensed but unaccredited, and, yes, diploma mills all are different and likely mean different things to different people. Hopefully OP is trying to capture both the nuance present in unaccredited degrees and the nuance (or lack thereof) in people’s understanding of their degrees.

[Duneranger]

Worth noting that we don’t know what the OP’s research questions are. Conflating unaccredited with degree mill could be intentional, but could equally be demonstrative of a particular group of biases carried by OP and much of the academic community.  It would actually be interesting to test if people self-identify as having unaccredited degrees when, in reality, their degrees are accredited. Likewise, would be interesting to test the amount of understanding that people have about what degree of legitimacy their unaccredited degree has. Previously accredited, seeking accreditation, religious exemption, “conscientious“ objections, state licensed but unaccredited, and, yes, diploma mills all are different and likely mean different things to different people. Hopefully OP is trying to capture both the nuance present in unaccredited degrees and the nuance (or lack thereof) in people’s understanding of their degrees.

It’s worth noting this for sure. This forum is very biased when it comes to educational pathways and programs. Since it’s caters to mostly non traditional grads, the beliefs and recommendations here are not going to align with the academic community at large (hence the emotional responses to OP).

Whether they are diploma mills or not (how do you define this?), unaccredited and religious schools aren’t looked fondly by the academic community.

I understand the projects premise and I’m sure their doctoral manuscript defines exactly what they are seeking as this is a forum post and not a dissertation defense after all.

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There is a need to get the definitions right regarding this subject. I could play games and state The Ohio State University was established in 1870, but has only been accredited by the Higher Learning Commission (HLC) of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA) since 1913. I could state that for 43 years The Ohio State University must have been a diploma mill. Best to do the proper research and not play games. By the way, one non-accredited college I attended had harder classes than any accredited college I have attended. I learned more with that non-accredited college degree than I did with my accredited college degree.

This is irrational and subjective copium.

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Saylor academy is launching an MBA program. If/when it launches, it would be unaccredited. Anyone can take the courses right now, they just can’t enroll just yet.  It’s still in Beta testing or whatever they call it

With the million of affordable and accredited MBA options out there, what would possess someone to do this?

[sanantone]

Worth noting that we don’t know what the OP’s research questions are. Conflating unaccredited with degree mill could be intentional, but could equally be demonstrative of a particular group of biases carried by OP and much of the academic community.  It would actually be interesting to test if people self-identify as having unaccredited degrees when, in reality, their degrees are accredited. Likewise, would be interesting to test the amount of understanding that people have about what degree of legitimacy their unaccredited degree has. Previously accredited, seeking accreditation, religious exemption, “conscientious“ objections, state licensed but unaccredited, and, yes, diploma mills all are different and likely mean different things to different people. Hopefully OP is trying to capture both the nuance present in unaccredited degrees and the nuance (or lack thereof) in people’s understanding of their degrees.

It’s worth noting this for sure. This forum is very biased when it comes to educational pathways and programs. Since it’s caters to mostly non traditional grads, the beliefs and recommendations here are not going to align with the academic community at large (hence the emotional responses to OP).

Whether they are diploma mills or not (how do you define this?), unaccredited and religious schools aren’t looked fondly by the academic community.

I understand the projects premise and I’m sure their doctoral manuscript defines exactly what they are seeking as this is a forum post and not a dissertation defense after all.

---

There is a need to get the definitions right regarding this subject. I could play games and state The Ohio State University was established in 1870, but has only been accredited by the Higher Learning Commission (HLC) of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA) since 1913. I could state that for 43 years The Ohio State University must have been a diploma mill. Best to do the proper research and not play games. By the way, one non-accredited college I attended had harder classes than any accredited college I have attended. I learned more with that non-accredited college degree than I did with my accredited college degree.

This is irrational and subjective copium.

---

Saylor academy is launching an MBA program. If/when it launches, it would be unaccredited. Anyone can take the courses right now, they just can’t enroll just yet.  It’s still in Beta testing or whatever they call it

With the million of affordable and accredited MBA options out there, what would possess someone to do this?

I have the opposite opinion. The responses are discussing the technicalities of accreditation. Our responses are nerdy and beyond the knowledge of the general public, not emotional. This forum, and also the sister forum, are not the best places to conduct this sort of survey because we have a better understanding of accreditation. While we do have some people here who have intentionally attended pre-accredited schools, we're less likely to be fooled by claims of being accredited by accreditation mills. A lot of people in the general public don't even know which accreditor accredits their school. I had a professor who didn't know who accredited the university he worked at. People are enrolling in schools blind assuming that they're legitimate, but not truly knowing that they're legitimate or how to verify that they're legitimate. 

Most here are against diploma mills and are attending or have attended accredited colleges, so I'm not sure why you think that discussing the nuances of accreditation is a defense of unaccredited schools. It's a concern for accuracy.

[MichaelGates]

[quote pid='422236' dateline='1719446188']
There is a need to get the definitions right regarding this subject. I could play games and state The Ohio State University was established in 1870, but has only been accredited by the Higher Learning Commission (HLC) of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA) since 1913. I could state that for 43 years The Ohio State University must have been a diploma mill. Best to do the proper research and not play games. By the way, one non-accredited college I attended had harder classes than any accredited college I have attended. I learned more with that non-accredited college degree than I did with my accredited college degree.

This is irrational and subjective copium.

So you think it is irrational and subjective copium to point out that games can be played with definitions and they should be researched to make sure one knows what one is talking about. So Duneranger, why do you think we should play games with definitions and not research what those definitions mean? Why do you not like the example given to show, that just like someone making up an untruthful statement, that all non-accredited college degrees are diploma mills, an untruthful statement could be made against The Ohio State University to likewise twist the facts? Or are you simply calling me a liar when I state I learned more with my non-accredited college degree?

[LevelUP]

I went to a 2-year college that was unaccredited during the first semester I attended but became accredited thereafter. This created issues with transferring my first semester credits to TESU.

That college was eligible for financial aid and was a legitimate institution. In no way was it a diploma mill.

The term "diploma mill" or "degree mill" is often used loosely. I have considered banning the use of these words when discussing our recommended colleges, as it can plant seeds of doubt and drive misinformation.

In the past, we had a disgruntled ex-WGU employee come on the forum solely to call WGU a diploma mill. Someone called UMPI a diploma mill after they got frustrated with how hard biology was at UMPI.

The term "diploma mill" often carries negative connotations, implying that the institution offers substandard education or degrees that aren't respected by employers.

[Vle045]

Saylor academy is launching an MBA program. If/when it launches, it would be unaccredited. Anyone can take the courses right now, they just can’t enroll just yet.  It’s still in Beta testing or whatever they call it

With the million of affordable and accredited MBA options out there, what would possess someone to do this?

From what I understand, this will be free other than the usual $5.00 per course exam. They will eventually seek accreditation.  Some may do it if it’s all they can afford, or if they want to just use it for personal enrichment, or they just want to be a guinea pig and try it out.

[Kjnova]

I am sure the OP is seeking response in more places than just this forum. I also don't think this forum is necessarily a bad place to ask. As someone said, people on this forum are highly aware of accreditation, but may not have always had that knowledge. In many cases, you can have a deficiency in some area, and then not only fix it, but turn it into a strength. An example is that I had credit problems as a young adult, and gave up on the idea of credit, using cash/debit card for everything for many years. Then I decided to come back and "do it right", and starting from nothing, built a great credit score with many positive accounts. I would still be someone who could answer questions about what it was like to have bad credit or use only a debit card, though, and a forum for discussion of credit would be a good place to find people like me in that regard.

The OP doesn't need everybody to respond, just one or two or three people, and it's realistic to think somebody here could respond to his request. Just my opinion.

That said, I think the more interesting topic is about innovative formats to reach people who are shut out by the traditional university system for one reason or another. I'm an example of this; I am 16 credits short of graduation from NC State, but it's virtually impossible for me to actually graduate from there unless I am willing to be in a classroom on campus two days a week for fall and spring semester (I need two specific upper level classes that are hardly offered anywhere else and only offered once a semester in person only on campus, during alternate semesters), and I really can't do that. So I am enrolled at UMPI because they offer a format that fits my needs. I think higher education in the United States at least needs a reboot to meet people where they are. Why can UMPI do it but NCSU can't? It's not about rigor, in my opinion. These classes are specific British Renaissance Literature and a World Literature class from a short list. They are not (how do I say this) that important, other than for future English professors, which does not describe me. How about, give me the list of books to read and a list of assignments and after I turn them in, I will drive to campus and take a test. But there's no option like that. The option is that I'm sitting in a classroom every Tuesday and Thursday from 10:30am to 12:30pm. I spent a month working with academic advisors there and searching the country for alternates I could transfer in and hitting dead end after dead end before giving up. "I found an online class that meets this requirement. Let me check how to sign up. Oh, it's not available this semester. Or next semester. And despite that college having online classes, this particular class is in person only." Stuff like that. There is no other degree option I can switch to that would ease the situation, either. No BLS or anything like that. I wish I had the time I put into investigating those options back. I could have knocked out a few more Study.com classes toward my UMPI degree if I hadn't spent weeks beating my head against the wall.

If I sound frustrated, I am, and what does any of this have to do with actually getting an education? They are focused on process aspects that will not matter for most students' lives, especially for most non-traditional adult students' lives, and that is what needs a reboot.

I think diploma mills are a symptom and I think what I am describing is the disease. At least, one of them (I guess some people will always try to cut corners, but there is a large group of people who would like to "do it right" but feel unproductively blocked from doing so). I suppose that would be an awkward dissertation to defend in an academic setting, though, since it shifts the blame from shady diploma mills to the core of academia.

[Duneranger]

[quote pid='422236' dateline='1719446188']
There is a need to get the definitions right regarding this subject. I could play games and state The Ohio State University was established in 1870, but has only been accredited by the Higher Learning Commission (HLC) of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA) since 1913. I could state that for 43 years The Ohio State University must have been a diploma mill. Best to do the proper research and not play games. By the way, one non-accredited college I attended had harder classes than any accredited college I have attended. I learned more with that non-accredited college degree than I did with my accredited college degree.

This is irrational and subjective copium.

So you think it is irrational and subjective copium to point out that games can be played with definitions and they should be researched to make sure one knows what one is talking about. So Duneranger, why do you think we should play games with definitions and not research what those definitions mean? Why do you not like the example given to show, that just like someone making up an untruthful statement, that all non-accredited college degrees are diploma mills, an untruthful statement could be made against The Ohio State University to likewise twist the facts? Or are you simply calling me a liar when I state I learned more with my non-accredited college degree?

[/quote]
Your response is irrational and emotional. Instead of asking for further clarification via a copy of their doctoral project manuscript (which describes their projects intent likely with term definitions ), you go off on some reach about OSU that is snide and superfluous at best. It’s a strawman argument and a weak one at that. Will a unaccredited degree grant you admission to a doctoral program at OSU? No, I wonder why and I also wonder why the academic community across the US values accreditation. Why do nursing and medical schools value it? Why is regional more important than national? Why do engineering schools value it? You are projecting, period.

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Worth noting that we don’t know what the OP’s research questions are. Conflating unaccredited with degree mill could be intentional, but could equally be demonstrative of a particular group of biases carried by OP and much of the academic community.  It would actually be interesting to test if people self-identify as having unaccredited degrees when, in reality, their degrees are accredited. Likewise, would be interesting to test the amount of understanding that people have about what degree of legitimacy their unaccredited degree has. Previously accredited, seeking accreditation, religious exemption, “conscientious“ objections, state licensed but unaccredited, and, yes, diploma mills all are different and likely mean different things to different people. Hopefully OP is trying to capture both the nuance present in unaccredited degrees and the nuance (or lack thereof) in people’s understanding of their degrees.

It’s worth noting this for sure. This forum is very biased when it comes to educational pathways and programs. Since it’s caters to mostly non traditional grads, the beliefs and recommendations here are not going to align with the academic community at large (hence the emotional responses to OP).

Whether they are diploma mills or not (how do you define this?), unaccredited and religious schools aren’t looked fondly by the academic community.

I understand the projects premise and I’m sure their doctoral manuscript defines exactly what they are seeking as this is a forum post and not a dissertation defense after all.

---

There is a need to get the definitions right regarding this subject. I could play games and state The Ohio State University was established in 1870, but has only been accredited by the Higher Learning Commission (HLC) of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA) since 1913. I could state that for 43 years The Ohio State University must have been a diploma mill. Best to do the proper research and not play games. By the way, one non-accredited college I attended had harder classes than any accredited college I have attended. I learned more with that non-accredited college degree than I did with my accredited college degree.

This is irrational and subjective copium.

---

Saylor academy is launching an MBA program. If/when it launches, it would be unaccredited. Anyone can take the courses right now, they just can’t enroll just yet.  It’s still in Beta testing or whatever they call it

With the million of affordable and accredited MBA options out there, what would possess someone to do this?

I have the opposite opinion. The responses are discussing the technicalities of accreditation. Our responses are nerdy and beyond the knowledge of the general public, not emotional. This forum, and also the sister forum, are not the best places to conduct this sort of survey because we have a better understanding of accreditation. While we do have some people here who have intentionally attended pre-accredited schools, we're less likely to be fooled by claims of being accredited by accreditation mills. A lot of people in the general public don't even know which accreditor accredits their school. I had a professor who didn't know who accredited the university he worked at. People are enrolling in schools blind assuming that they're legitimate, but not truly knowing that they're legitimate or how to verify that they're legitimate. 

Most here are against diploma mills and are attending or have attended accredited colleges, so I'm not sure why you think that discussing the nuances of accreditation is a defense of unaccredited schools. It's a concern for accuracy.

Actually I disagree, I have seen so many roundabout discussions l on here to try and snag 20 dollar degrees from random schools overseas or other low effort methods to just check the box and or try and translate it to another degree or RA credits. Not every post is like this but many do come here to find the cheapest and easiest way to get a piece of paper by any means necessary, dubious or not.

Obviously no one is going to come here and claim or advocate that they want a diploma mill degree. 

Some of the suggestions on here would get roasted on literally any other educational forum and or Reddit. The opinions here are often not the norm. This is fine, but to act like OPs research question is inappropriate …is out of touch.

[sanantone]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the research question is inappropriate; they're offering suggestions on how to be more precise, which is important for research.

There are still new schools being created, including public schools. About 17 years ago, the Alamo Colleges (community colleges) created a new branch college that had to be unaccredited for years. They had a transfer agreement so that students could earn an associate's at another Alamo College until Northeast Lakeview gained its own accreditation. University of Arkansas' eVersity started out unaccredited. Every college has to start out unaccredited. What was dubious was when companies would buy struggling, accredited colleges, and then drastically change them into something totally different - usually a for-profit college. They called that "buying accreditation," which HLC was pressured to crack down on.

I do have to admit that I've been annoyed by the ENEB and similar discussions that started to pop up a few years ago, but it's still the case that most here will graduate from an accredited school. With that said, this forum has always been centered around ACE, NCCRS, and credit-by-exam to minimize the cost of completing a degree. If you have a moral objection to that, then why even join or stay on the forum?

[Duneranger]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the research question is inappropriate; they're offering suggestions on how to be more precise, which is important for research.

There are still new schools being created, including public schools. About 17 years ago, the Alamo Colleges (community colleges) created a new branch college that had to be unaccredited for years. They had a transfer agreement so that students could earn an associate's at another Alamo College until Northeast Lakeview gained its own accreditation. University of Arkansas' eVersity started out unaccredited. Every college has to start out unaccredited. What was dubious was when companies would buy struggling, accredited colleges, and then drastically change them into something totally different - usually a for-profit college. They called that "buying accreditation," which HLC was pressured to crack down on.

I do have to admit that I've been annoyed by the ENEB and similar discussions that started to pop up a few years ago, but it's still the case that most here will graduate from an accredited school. With that said, this forum has always been centered around ACE, NCCRS, and credit-by-exam to minimize the cost of completing a degree. If you have a moral objection to that, then why even join or stay on the forum?

Moving the goal posts a bit here. I never said I had a moral obligation against it. I think there is a very obvious reason why most schools don’t accept ACE credits but if some schools do, then it is what it is.

Again, OPs post is just a survey request. These dissertations are hundreds of pages. I’m SURE they go in detail about accreditation and what it does or doesn’t mean. They are just in the data collection phase.

When I got my 2nd BA for fun, I took some classes via SL and Sophia. Do I think they were a joke? Yes. Do I think they were as hard as a in person college course? No. Am I going to say someone’s degree is not legitimate because they used alternative credits? Also, no. 

I’m referring to the programs you mentioned and those that are similar.