Did you receive a non-accredited degree / degree mill degree? (Interview Opportunity)

[newdegree]

When I think of accredited degrees, I have created a standard I follow. Every person is different but just wanted to put my two cents out there.

Regionally accredited - Gold Standard Example: Fordham University (accredited by Middle States Commission for Higher Education)  https://www.fordham.edu/about/leadership...editation/

Nationally Accredited - Silver Standard Example: Ashworth College (nationally accredited by the DEAC)  https://www.ashworthcollege.edu/why-ashw...g%20agency.

State DOE Accreditation - Bronze Standard Example: Acadamy of Natural Health Science Training Center (Accredited by New Jersey State
Departments of Education & Labor)  https://anhs-school.com/accreditation.html

Unaccredited programs - Tin Standard Example: Gambit Business School (which has a ton of unknown and unheard of accreditations not recognized by any country)  https://www.gambit.education/about/history

[Kjnova]

I hope Sam doesn't take any of this discussion personally! I think it is a somewhat emotional topic here, for various reasons related to the purpose of this board.

I will candidly say that if I thought I could buy a diploma-mill degree and it would serve my purpose, I probably would do that. Call it tragedy of the commons, or just say that the box I am trying to check is not a box that I think should be necessary, but, it's there. I think far fewer job openings should require a four-year degree, especially for experienced applicants. For most roles, you could simply require experience, OR a certification, OR a class, OR a degree. When you require something like this, it leads to people figuring out ways to get it, even if only so they aren't filtered out of the application process by an AI. However, I don't think getting a diploma mill degree would serve my purposes - I think it would do more harm than good - so like probably everyone here, I am using an accredited program to check that box. I additionally decided to narrow it to regionally accredited instead of nationally accredited, and I picked a school that is part of a state university system (albeit one that is essentially open admissions and not considered competitive). I made those choices so it would have the most credibility possible among the options that are achievable for me at this point in my life.

I do think it's a fair question for this venue, because as I said earlier, there could be people here who got unaccredited degrees that could be considered diploma-mill degrees before coming to this board, or at least researched or considered it.

Again, I think we are talking about a symptom. I think our education system is a mix of ideas from different eras that serve different purposes, in some cases little to no purpose today, and should be rethought top to bottom. But that is easier said than done, because it's an interconnected system with no central authority to lead the change in ways that may not be self-interested for university administrators.

[nykorn]

One issue - some schools like ENEB are evaluated as accredited according to one evaluation agency, but not accredited according to another agency. So there is also a "yes and no" situation. In addition to that, ENEB is not accredited but its partner that issues certificates, Isabel I University, is accredited, and you can obtain both certificates for taking the same one course. Yet another "yes and no".

[xspect]

I'm very surpirsed this recruitment passed IRB and your chair. Hopefully, you obtained permission from DF as per accredited IRB standards.

Issues you already have before you performed your first interview

Recruitment and Screening Challenges;
 Use of stigmatizing terms like "diploma mills"
 Privacy worries, such as requesting institution details and emails
 Lack of transparent confidentiality measures
 Assumption about knowing accreditation status
 Limited response choices for complex scenarios
Absence of demographic queries
 Time commitment that could discourage participation
What level of English fluency ? Interagency Language Roundtable (ILR) scale or  the American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages (ACTFL)


Potential risks;
 Privacy concerns; Insufficient explanation of data protection
 Psychological impact; Distress from discussing potentially fake degrees
 Social/Professional risks; Damage to reputation job related threats

Deficiencies in Risk Mitigation;
Confidentiality issues; Unclear anonymization or storage procedures
Informed Consent gaps: Incomplete process, no mention of withdrawal rights 
Debriefing inadequacies; Lack of post-interview support details

General Concerns;
Self selection bias and social desirability influence 
Possibility to trigger defensiveness 
No discussion on compensation or participation benefits 
Why didn't you ask for your recruitment discussion to be locked? Now, potential candidates have addressed the topic that affects your research.

My point is that accreditation is not a magic bullet. Is the Ohio state accreditated IRB committee or your chair aware of the above issues in your recruitment?

*Note* Im very proud to be the holder of a Doctorate from Abide University, which is unaccredited https://aui.me/ 

Dr. Xspect DMin (hon) 
Abide University
Go Dudeism

[Kjnova]

Considering that this is an academic person, working on an academic project, about one slice of academia, to be graded and hypothetically used by a "superior" slice of academia ... while I can see the appeal of the project for completing a program and getting a good grade, I really do not think it's a question that will lead to any positive changes.

What I would love for an academic paper to ask other academic groups is, "what are we missing?"

Why does this board exist? What need is it providing information to help fill? Why are all of these people (many of them mature and successful people) focused mainly on a handful of open admissions universities? Why doesn't Ohio State have much to offer them? What steps should Ohio State - or any other schools who see the paper produced - take to help fill the gap?

To me, that is the biggest question to ask in academia today. (If NC State, or Ohio State, had a YourPace program, I'd likely be in it.) But I recognize it's a less comfortable question for one academic to ask other academics, at places like Ohio State, because instead of your audience joining you in frowning at interlopers, you would be asking them to frown at themselves.

[newdegree]

If he narrowed down what types of accreditation are considered non-accredited this would help. I gave an example above using my level rankings of accreditation. Now there will be loopholes such as ENEB which can be evaluated in different ways depending on the accreditor but ENEB alone does not hold accreditation.

[mitchell1857]

non-accredited colleges and universities (also known as diploma or degree mills)

Some non-accredited colleges and universities are diploma or degree mills, but it's unfair to categorize them all as diploma or degree mills. It may not be your personal classification as a doctoral student since you're just tasked with doing university research. However, it is best that accredited universities (i.e. Ohio State University) understand the nuances before publishing potential misinformation about non-accredited colleges and universities.

Hi there! Yes, I am aware that there are many non-accredited schools that don't seek accreditation for whatever reason (most commonly religious universities) but I appreciate you pointing that out. I don't mean to conflate all non-accredited schools here - I'm merely using both terms because I think a lot of folks will be more familiar with the term "degree mill" vs. non-accredited, especially if they feel that they were scammed by an institution that was dishonest about the accreditation of the institution. When we do calls for participants, we can't exactly include all the nuances in a simple poster, but you're correct!

---

The OP should also keep in mind that some of the hoped-for audience who obtained a degree from a diploma or degree mill believe they obtained an accredited degree.

Diploma or degree mills often claim accreditation. Each claim is either false or worthless (because the accrediting body involved is an accreditation mill). But a client of the diploma or degree mill may believe the claim to be true.

---

The non-overlap between "non-accredited college" and "diploma or degree mill" is so large that the OP should rewrite their interview requirements.

Yes, I'm aware of this and am very familiar with how degree mills market themselves -- one of the purposes of the study is to understand how degree mills can fool individuals into posing as accredited institutions particularly by using accreditation mills. 

Re: rewriting the interview requirements - It's very easy for me to look up the institution that a person earned a degree from and confirm that it is a "degree mill" rather than another type of non-accredited institution (e.g., a religious university that has deliberately not sought out accreditation). But degree mills are non-accredited institutions, by definition, and not everyone will be familiar with the term degree/diploma mill (even degree and diploma mills are not actually the same thing) in the same way that not everyone will know what "non-accredited" means. I'm merely using broad language to recruit, and there will be a filtering process to make sure participants and their experiences are relevant to the research.

---

I am sure the OP is seeking response in more places than just this forum. I also don't think this forum is necessarily a bad place to ask. As someone said, people on this forum are highly aware of accreditation, but may not have always had that knowledge. In many cases, you can have a deficiency in some area, and then not only fix it, but turn it into a strength. An example is that I had credit problems as a young adult, and gave up on the idea of credit, using cash/debit card for everything for many years. Then I decided to come back and "do it right", and starting from nothing, built a great credit score with many positive accounts. I would still be someone who could answer questions about what it was like to have bad credit or use only a debit card, though, and a forum for discussion of credit would be a good place to find people like me in that regard.

The OP doesn't need everybody to respond, just one or two or three people, and it's realistic to think somebody here could respond to his request. Just my opinion.

That said, I think the more interesting topic is about innovative formats to reach people who are shut out by the traditional university system for one reason or another. I'm an example of this; I am 16 credits short of graduation from NC State, but it's virtually impossible for me to actually graduate from there unless I am willing to be in a classroom on campus two days a week for fall and spring semester (I need two specific upper level classes that are hardly offered anywhere else and only offered once a semester in person only on campus, during alternate semesters), and I really can't do that. So I am enrolled at UMPI because they offer a format that fits my needs. I think higher education in the United States at least needs a reboot to meet people where they are. Why can UMPI do it but NCSU can't? It's not about rigor, in my opinion. These classes are specific British Renaissance Literature and a World Literature class from a short list. They are not (how do I say this) that important, other than for future English professors, which does not describe me. How about, give me the list of books to read and a list of assignments and after I turn them in, I will drive to campus and take a test. But there's no option like that. The option is that I'm sitting in a classroom every Tuesday and Thursday from 10:30am to 12:30pm. I spent a month working with academic advisors there and searching the country for alternates I could transfer in and hitting dead end after dead end before giving up. "I found an online class that meets this requirement. Let me check how to sign up. Oh, it's not available this semester. Or next semester. And despite that college having online classes, this particular class is in person only." Stuff like that. There is no other degree option I can switch to that would ease the situation, either. No BLS or anything like that. I wish I had the time I put into investigating those options back. I could have knocked out a few more Study.com classes toward my UMPI degree if I hadn't spent weeks beating my head against the wall.

If I sound frustrated, I am, and what does any of this have to do with actually getting an education? They are focused on process aspects that will not matter for most students' lives, especially for most non-traditional adult students' lives, and that is what needs a reboot.

I think diploma mills are a symptom and I think what I am describing is the disease. At least, one of them (I guess some people will always try to cut corners, but there is a large group of people who would like to "do it right" but feel unproductively blocked from doing so). I suppose that would be an awkward dissertation to defend in an academic setting, though, since it shifts the blame from shady diploma mills to the core of academia.

Hi there! Unfortunately I don't have time to reply to all the comments in this thread, especially since most are kind of making assumptions about my research that assume I don't have any kind of nuanced understanding of accreditation and differences between institutions (sigh...) but I did really want to reply to this comment because what you're articulating here about frustrations with traditional higher education is kind of one of the things I'm trying to explore with this dissertation. I'm less interested in why people "cheat" the system by getting "fake" degrees, rather I'm more interested in how we've constructed a labor market that requires so many people to complete degrees (which may not be actually necessary for many jobs) while making traditional higher education so inaccessible (e.g., requiring classes that seem irrelevant to the degree, requiring people to attend in person classes, the cost, etc). I see degree mills and other forms of "nontraditional" accrediting (like certificate bootcamps and other short-term educational programs) to be responding to this broader problem that exists: according to employers, people need degrees, but most college programs are designed for 18 year olds with minimal responsibilities outside of school -- what are working adults to do? I completely empathize with your frustration, the system isn't built to accommodate nontraditional students. I think probably a lot of nontraditional students turn to non-accredited schools because of frustrations with the traditional college system. 

It's actually not awkward to critique academia in a dissertation, haha. I study sociology of education so we're often critiquing higher education as a mechanism that reproduces inequality.

[nykorn]

Guys, you're taking this survey way too seriously. It's just the OP's school assignment, isn't it? A school assignment will never change the world. If there are issues with how the assignment is conducted, in the end, they will just need to redo the dissertation from scratch. It happened to me and I'm still alive, although I graduated a year later than planned!

[newdegree]

Diploma mill and unaccredited degree are very sensitive words around these forums. They should be used cautiously unless you want a mob of criticism lol. Just kidding

[TopHatWombat]

Saylor academy is launching an MBA program. If/when it launches, it would be unaccredited. Anyone can take the courses right now, they just can’t enroll just yet.  It’s still in Beta testing or whatever they call it

With the million of affordable and accredited MBA options out there, what would possess someone to do this?

From what I understand, this will be free other than the usual $5.00 per course exam. They will eventually seek accreditation.  Some may do it if it’s all they can afford, or if they want to just use it for personal enrichment, or they just want to be a guinea pig and try it out.

Saylor exams are notoriously difficult. I have every intention of completing this program as my actual, for-realsies MBA once it expands past Florida residents. As long as they have legal degree granting authority from the state, Saylor is adequate for my needs.