Big three Alternatives?

[rickyjo]

It seems to me that so many people complain that how hard one works on a course is not a proper basis for a passing grade, that only proving knowledge is sufficient. In some cases this is inconvenient, but, I hope that reasoning will be applied to schools that allow complete testing out. I would hate to see it applied in the inconvenient way but not the helpful way.

[millerfx]

http://www.Ashford.edu

They will take 99 credits and have a lot of programs to choose from.

[Maniac Craniac]

This whole idea of testing out of an entire degree is pretty ridiculous. These tests have their place, and some of them do exactly what they claim to do, even if most don't. However, I think that a completely multiple-choice degree kills the credibility of what would otherwise be a great service from the Big 3.

It seems to me that so many people complain that how hard one works on a course is not a proper basis for a passing grade, that only proving knowledge is sufficient.

Knowledge* and education are not synonyms. School isn't about what you know, but about the work that you put into your studies. It disappoints me to see the statement made that passing a CLEP is the equivalent to passing a course. Sure the credits are the same, but do you REALLY gain as much out of clicking a few answers on a single test (a multiple-choice test, where the answer is actually GIVEN to you) as you would by doing dozens of hours of research, writing dozens of pages of papers, or doing hundreds of paper and pencil problems?

*Especially when that knowledge is often completely lost within just a few days of passing an exam.

[pspdarkhanseo]

This whole idea of testing out of an entire degree is pretty ridiculous. These tests have their place, and some of them do exactly what they claim to do, even if most don't. However, I think that a completely multiple-choice degree kills the credibility of what would otherwise be a great service from the Big 3. Knowledge* and education are not synonyms. School isn't about what you know, but about the work that you put into your studies. It disappoints me to see the statement made that passing a CLEP is the equivalent to passing a course. Sure the credits are the same, but do you REALLY gain as much out of clicking a few answers on a single test (a multiple-choice test, where the answer is actually GIVEN to you) as you would by doing dozens of hours of research, writing dozens of pages of papers, or doing hundreds of paper and pencil problems?

*Especially when that knowledge is often completely lost within just a few days of passing an exam.

you do know you can go class ,complete all the work and still forget what you learned.

[Maniac Craniac]

you do know you can go class ,complete all the work and still forget what you learned.

Since everyone is just going to forget it anyway, why bother with classes? In fact, why even bother with testing out? Why not just charge a fee and give away degrees?

School isn't about the specific knowledge that you gain, rather, the work that you put into it and the skills acquired.

[MomOfMany]

Since everyone is just going to forget it anyway, why bother with classes? In fact, why even bother with testing out? Why not just charge a fee and give away degrees?

School isn't about the specific knowledge that you gain, rather, the work that you put into it and the skills acquired.

That is what you think school is about.
Obviously not every one agrees with you.

And many people do put considerable work into gaining knowledge, whether it be through CBE, a class, or simply self-learning.
Not to mention, many college classes appear to disagree with you, if their syllabus is any indicator, because more than a few base the majority or even the entire grade for the class on the final exam.
If school is about nothing more than work put in and skill acquired, one would be just as well served to work an assembly line for 4 years and get a degree for it.

I don't necessarily disagree with your premise that a degree should not be entirely tested out, especially in certain fields of study, but the reasoning of your premise is what I respectfully but strongly disagree with.

[Lindagerr]

:iagree: I have 30+ years experience in a laboratory, I know the work well and remember it. That did not get me a degree or teach me how to be a teacher. I took exams I was in subjects I knew something about and then in subjects I wanted to learn something about. If I was just going to college to "get the degree" I could have done many things quicker and easier. I put more time and effort in to it because it was important to me.

Sometimes studying for a CLEP or other exam peeked my interest so much I did other research into a subject later for my own knowledge. After completing the papers and exams in my courses I was burnt out on the subject and did not broaden my knowlege of the subject.

We all will get out of our degree only what we put into it.

[rubbersoul]

Some people have different ways of learning. It's unfair to discredit taking exams to get a degree. I personally don't have the time or patience to sit through a class. In addition I have had several bad experiences with professors trying to push their own agenda since they have a captive audience. Sure I can sit through a 16 week course and complete their "learning activities", but since I am already part of the workforce in the real world, I would much rather prove that I know the material by passing a CLEP or DSST, and then move on. For instance why should I sit through a Computer course for 4 months when I have been in the field for 20 years. Same can be said for several business courses.

I have learned and retained so much more by studying for these tests than I ever could in a classroom. That is just my learning style. Some may find classrooms a better conduit for learning. Also, these tests are not just an easy multiple choice. You really need to know your subject matter.

It shows a real sense of arrogance or maybe just ignorance to say that "testing out" is not a viable way to obtain a degree. Especially now, with the cost of education increasing, and the quality of classroom education decreasing.

[MomOfMany]

[quote]I have had several bad experiences with professors trying to push their own agenda /quote]

I will never forget the human ecology class I had for this reason. The donkey rear that taught it apparently took exception to my large family as he made every class session all about birth control. Seriously. I think he was trying to convert me to his own beliefs or something. We never used the textbook even ONE time in that class. All the other students thought it was great to get a fluff class until the final exam worth 100% of our grade was handed out and they didn't know squat. Thankfully I had delevoped armadillo skin and had read the text assignments according to the syllabus. I still got a C because the test essay was to write how birth control had improved my life and what would be the negative impact of not using birth control. Yeahhh. My essay on how not using birth control has been a great thing for us and what the negative impact on my life would be if I used it meant I failed that 25 pt portion of the test.

But I learned a lot about human ecology anyways. Still have the textbook somewhere. But I sure am not going to give any credit to the class setting for what I learned.

Oh and I remember 3 girls in the class who were working towards a degree in general education bc they wanted to teach elementary school. The horror of meeting a mom with 6 kids and she home schools! They said I was crazy and they didn't know how I do it. I looked at them in amusement and said, "You do know what elementary teachers do, don't you?" and they replied that is different. Well yeah sure it is, but call ME crazy for limiting myself to only dealing with my own kids?:confused: You could not pay me enough to teach 20+ other people's elementary kids all the same age. *shudder*hilarious

[Maniac Craniac]

That is what you think school is about.
Obviously not every one agrees with you.

Great point. I keep thinking about this. Just what IS the point of school? I am an idealist, for sure. I think school can give you something that nothing else can. However, I am at a loss to define it, exactly. If the point was the acquisition of knowledge, then BAH, HUMBUG! Knowledge is easily acquired from the library and from the internet these days. No, there is a lot more to it than that, and a part of it is the work that you put into it.

Some people have different ways of learning. It's unfair to discredit taking exams to get a degree.

Its not taking exams that I am disagreeing with, its the taking of multiple choice exams, and using them toward an entire degree. As you can see, I have taken a good handful of exams myself, but the exams were so easy and ill-conceived that I could just as easily have passed all of them without any study at all. However, if I did it that way, then what would the point have been? I would have learned nothing, gained nothing and would have proven no more knowledge than that multiple-choice exams are easily beaten.

The only exams that I truly believed served their purpose were the foreign language exams. You can't guess your way through those, nor can you pass without at least having some knowledge of the languages.

since I am already part of the workforce in the real world, I would much rather prove that I know the material by passing a CLEP or DSST, and then move on. For instance why should I sit through a Computer course for 4 months when I have been in the field for 20 years.

This is exactly the application of these exams that I agree with completely. The problem I have is that these exams are generally so easy that it does not require 20 years, nor even 20 minutes, of experience to walk away with a chunk of credit.

We all will get out of our degree only what we put into it.

:iagree: