All master's programs should be treated as for-profit

[sanantone]

Kevin Carey argues that all master's programs should be treated as for-profit for regulatory purposes. 

1. Some nonprofit schools have hired online program managers, such as 2U, and those companies receive 70% of the tuition. 

2. Students can borrow an unlimited amount with Graduate Plus loans. The government removed limits because interest rates are higher, and graduates of master's programs pay their loans back at a higher rate than those who borrowed for undergraduate programs. 

3. Carey didn't only criticize arts programs; he criticized online, career-oriented master's programs that are 12 months long or shorter. 

4. Almost half of master's students are now online. 

* Interesting tidbit: Harvard's MFA program used to fall under the Obama administration's gainful employment rules.

https://slate.com/business/2021/07/masters-degrees-debt-loans-worth-it.html

[ss20ts]

You know what they say about opinions, right? In some careers, a master's degree is a requirement. There's no way around it. Why would Harvard's master's degrees be treated like a for profit but not their bachelor's degrees? That makes no sense. Not just Harvard but any college/university. I can only imagine his logic towards doctoral degrees including MDs and JDs.

[ashkir]

Honestly, this sounds like the DeVos arguments, higher interest rates are good because students have to work harder to pay them back, so she can get richer since her family owns one of the largest student loan companies in the world. He works for a think-tank that is funded by the tech giants of the world.

A huge issue is universities that are making the cost of masters unreachable for many. The big names are rising their prices rapidly to pay program managers and marketing, when they can focus on word of mouth. Look at UMPI, tiny ass budget, but, they're probably going to be one of the biggest CBE universities for Undergrads in the next few years as more and more people turn to online degrees.

I looked at New America where he works. A LOT of their education articles are about PARENTS borrowing money for their kids. Not about the student borrowing for themselves, and encouraging of private loans vs public loans. This is really odd. I feel like they probably have a massive donor who is funding these opinions.

A lot of their funding is from large investor groups who heavily depend upon the lifeblood of the loan market. https://www.newamerica.org/our-funding/

[sanantone]

You know what they say about opinions, right? In some careers, a master's degree is a requirement. There's no way around it. Why would Harvard's master's degrees be treated like a for profit but not their bachelor's degrees? That makes no sense. Not just Harvard but any college/university. I can only imagine his logic towards doctoral degrees including MDs and JDs.

Harvard's master's students take on much more debt. I do think his reasoning is a bit silly and all over the place.

---

Honestly, this sounds like the DeVos arguments, higher interest rates are good because students have to work harder to pay them back, so she can get richer since her family owns one of the largest student loan companies in the world. He works for a think-tank that is funded by the tech giants of the world.

A huge issue is universities that are making the cost of masters unreachable for many. The big names are rising their prices rapidly to pay program managers and marketing, when they can focus on word of mouth. Look at UMPI, tiny ass budget, but, they're probably going to be one of the biggest CBE universities for Undergrads in the next few years as more and more people turn to online degrees.

I looked at New America where he works. A LOT of their education articles are about PARENTS borrowing money for their kids. Not about the student borrowing for themselves, and encouraging of private loans vs public loans. This is really odd. I feel like they probably have a massive donor who is funding these opinions.

A lot of their funding is from large investor groups who heavily depend upon the lifeblood of the loan market. https://www.newamerica.org/our-funding/

He's calling for the federal government to cap graduate loans and let the private lenders decide if a program is worth the tuition that's being charged. He seems to be very anti-online education. That's a good find you made. His argument is so illogical, there must be an ulterior motive.

[Alpha]

Kevin Carey argues that all master's programs should be treated as for-profit for regulatory purposes. 

1. Some nonprofit schools have hired online program managers, such as 2U, and those companies receive 70% of the tuition. 

2. Students can borrow an unlimited amount with Graduate Plus loans. The government removed limits because interest rates are higher, and graduates of master's programs pay their loans back at a higher rate than those who borrowed for undergraduate programs. 

3. Carey didn't only criticize arts programs; he criticized online, career-oriented master's programs that are 12 months long or shorter. 

4. Almost half of master's students are now online. 

* Interesting tidbit: Harvard's MFA program used to fall under the Obama administration's gainful employment rules.

https://slate.com/business/2021/07/masters-degrees-debt-loans-worth-it.html

If there is criticism deserved for these programs I would imagine that some of it should land in the laps of the accreditors.  Isn't it part of their job to determine program quality?

[sanantone]

Kevin Carey argues that all master's programs should be treated as for-profit for regulatory purposes. 

1. Some nonprofit schools have hired online program managers, such as 2U, and those companies receive 70% of the tuition. 

2. Students can borrow an unlimited amount with Graduate Plus loans. The government removed limits because interest rates are higher, and graduates of master's programs pay their loans back at a higher rate than those who borrowed for undergraduate programs. 

3. Carey didn't only criticize arts programs; he criticized online, career-oriented master's programs that are 12 months long or shorter. 

4. Almost half of master's students are now online. 

* Interesting tidbit: Harvard's MFA program used to fall under the Obama administration's gainful employment rules.

https://slate.com/business/2021/07/masters-degrees-debt-loans-worth-it.html

If there is criticism deserved for these programs I would imagine that some of it should land in the laps of the accreditors.  Isn't it part of their job to determine program quality?

It is, but he didn't exactly explain what his issue was with the 1-year master's programs. Are they expensive? Do they have a negative ROI? From what I've seen, these short, online master's programs are typically cheaper. What does he mean by career-oriented? You have applied degrees and theoretical, liberal arts degrees. Different subjects within each category will have a different ROI. For example, physics and biology are liberal arts degrees, but a physics master's will have a better ROI than a biology master's. Education and engineering are applied degrees, but engineering will have a better ROI than education.

[ss20ts]

He's calling for the federal government to cap graduate loans and let the private lenders decide if a program is worth the tuition that's being charged. He seems to be very anti-online education. That's a good find you made. His argument is so illogical, there must be an ulterior motive.

If a grad student sticks to the regular fed sub and unsub loans then there is a cap. Part of the reason that tuition is so high now is because the government go involved. They can't just walk away now and leave a mess for other's to clean up. That would be a disaster. Something does need to change but just abandoning the mess they helped create isn't the way.

[sanantone]

He's calling for the federal government to cap graduate loans and let the private lenders decide if a program is worth the tuition that's being charged. He seems to be very anti-online education. That's a good find you made. His argument is so illogical, there must be an ulterior motive.

If a grad student sticks to the regular fed sub and unsub loans then there is a cap. Part of the reason that tuition is so high now is because the government go involved. They can't just walk away now and leave a mess for other's to clean up. That would be a disaster. Something does need to change but just abandoning the mess they helped create isn't the way.

But, if a student qualifies for a Grad Plus loan, which isn't hard to do, borrowing is unlimited. 

If the government reinstated the borrowing limits, people would go back to what they did before - borrow from private lenders. They have stricter requirements; people often get their parents to cosign. I believe online education has made master's programs more popular rather than available financial aid. It's much easier now to keep a full-time job and continue to go to school.

[ss20ts]

If the government reinstated the borrowing limits, people would go back to what they did before - borrow from private lenders. They have stricter requirements; people often get their parents to cosign. I believe online education has made master's programs more popular rather than available financial aid. It's much easier now to keep a full-time job and continue to go to school.

Just because you qualify doesn't mean you have to take it! Getting parents to cosign a grad loan for someone in their 30's, 40's+ yeah right.

[sanantone]

If the government reinstated the borrowing limits, people would go back to what they did before - borrow from private lenders. They have stricter requirements; people often get their parents to cosign. I believe online education has made master's programs more popular rather than available financial aid. It's much easier now to keep a full-time job and continue to go to school.

Just because you qualify doesn't mean you have to take it! Getting parents to cosign a grad loan for someone in their 30's, 40's+ yeah right.

True, people don't have to apply for Grad Plus loans, but they do. The last time I looked, the cap for Direct (formerly Stafford) loans is $135,000, so Grad Plus loans typically are not needed for a master's degree. I doubt there are many people borrowing over that for master's degree programs. 

As for cosigners for private loans, people often go to grad school in their 20s. Those in their 30s and 40s should be able to qualify for a private loan without a cosigner. I don't recommend private loans because there are fewer protections.