4 hour physics for premed and predental students

[clep3705]

The discussion of 3 hour physics for nonmajors provides some great options. It made me wonder if internet based education has gotten to the point where hard science courses with labs are being offered. I can kind of see where lab based microbiology for prenursing majors could be offered online. I absolutely don't see a way for organic chemistry for premeds to be offered online.

What about physics with lab for premeds? That might be possible. Just wondering. I'm not sure, but I don't think physics for premeds has to necessarily be calculus based. I realize that it is unlikely for a medical or dental school to knowingly accept a lab based science course that was taken online, nor do I have any interest in pointlessly debating if they should or not. (I suppose if I said the Duggars are taking online premed classes we could beat another dead horse!) I'm just interested in where we are today in pushing the boundaries of internet education.

[cookderosa]

The discussion of 3 hour physics for nonmajors provides some great options. It made me wonder if internet based education has gotten to the point where hard science courses with labs are being offered. I can kind of see where lab based microbiology for prenursing majors could be offered online. I absolutely don't see a way for organic chemistry for premeds to be offered online.

What about physics with lab for premeds? That might be possible. Just wondering. I'm not sure, but I don't think physics for premeds has to necessarily be calculus based. I realize that it is unlikely for a medical or dental school to knowingly accept a lab based science course that was taken online, nor do I have any interest in pointlessly debating if they should or not. (I suppose if I said the Duggars are taking online premed classes we could beat another dead horse!) I'm just interested in where we are today in pushing the boundaries of internet education.

I think it's being offered, but I think it's too new to be good. I've taken virtual labs as well as in home labs, and there are some issues. First, the virtual labs are probably where this needs to go (NASA and military have used simulation exercises for EVER) but everything I've encountered has been way too basic. However, check out this very cool collection of virtual labs Welcome to Virtual Labs

[JohnnyHeck]

Loved the virtual lab link!

I was thinking of taking the TESC Chemistry I,II w/lab courses instead of doing these at a CC primarily because of the schedule flexibility. But if no grad school would recognize this as a true lab course, then I'd have to do it all over again, in which case I'd be better off just doing Chem. Clep now which I already know is not acceptable for my target grad school.

How useless are these home lab kits? Why would they even be offered at TESC since they are not required for their degrees?

[sanantone]

Because I'm a bit obsessive-compulsive, I've looked at almost every physical therapy, occupational therapy, optometry, audiology, and physician's assistant program in Texas. I'm sure I'm missing other medical professions, but I've looked at a lot. I haven't looked at podiatry because there are no podiatry programs in Texas which I find strange. Most programs that require physics require physics for majors. I believe I've come across online physics for major courses. Some of the programs specifically said that sciences for allied health majors were not acceptable. Science for allied health majors tends to be acceptable for nursing and...well...allied health (normally professions that only require an associate's or bachelor's degree). Optometry especially requires advanced physics because optometrists deal with optics. I don't think the courses specifically have to say they are for majors; they just have to not say they are for non-majors or allied health majors.

I've seen some colleges say that correspondence/online courses were okay but not preferred and I've seen others that strictly say they do not accept distance science courses. Most say that algebra-based physics is fine. I've seen some healthcare programs that don't require the lab. Some programs prefer that you not take the science prerequisites at a community college. The most liberal programs have to be University of Texas -Austin's alternate entry MSN and PhD in Nursing programs. They actually recommend Straighterline and University of Phoenix courses as well as other online courses.

[sanantone]

Since Texas has a common course numbering system, I decided to look up the different levels of physics at one Texas community college system.

PHYS 1301 - General Physics I
Students study motion, forces, conservation of energy, momentum, fluids, wave motion and heat. This course meets the requirements for biology, pre-medical, pre-dental, pre-pharmacy, pre-architecture and other majors. The lab, PHYS 1101, is recommended but not required to be taken concurrently.

The Alamo community colleges have pre-health professional majors where this course will fulfill the degree requirements. It doesn't mean that these will fulfill the prerequisites for those professions. I'm really not sure if 1301 is the same as 1401 with the lab component separated, but the course descriptions are different. I think it would be safer to take 1401 or higher.

Phys 1101 - General Physics I Lab (goes with 1301)
Laboratory experience for students enrolled in PHYS 1301. The topics include motion, forces, conservation of energy, momentum, fluids, wave motion and heat.

PHYS 1305 - Introductory Physics I
This is a non-technical course that explores some of the fundamental rules of nature. The topics of motion, mechanics, heat, and sound are presented in a conceptual format. This course is recommended for students with no previous physics experience and for those who do not need a math-intensive course as a prerequisite for further work in science, engineering, mathematics, or medicine.

PHYS 1401 - General Physics I
This course fulfills the requirement for a technical course in physics with a laboratory component for programs such as medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, and architecture. The fundamentals of mechanics, heat, and sound are presented in a problem solving context. Computer applications relevant to course content may be utilized.

This is the course I would recommend.

PHYS 2425 - University Physics I
Fundamental principles of physics, using calculus, for science, computer science, and engineering majors; the principles and applications of classical mechanics, including harmonic motion, physical systems and thermodynamics; and emphasis on problem solving; basic laboratory experiments supporting the theoretical principles presented as well as experimental design, data collection and analysis, and preparation of laboratory reports.

This course would probably be overkill.

As far as Phys 1401 (and 1402) goes, it automatically comes with the lab component. Looking at the Virtual College of Texas, it is offered online by Northwest Vista College, Western Texas College, and Northeast Texas Community College. I'm sure there are other Texas CCs that offer those courses online, but they just aren't a part of VCT.

[clep3705]

The Virtual College of Texas is a great find. You enroll at your local Texas community college and pay in-district tuition for courses taken from schools in other parts of Texas. http://www.vct.org

[sanantone]

I discovered VCT several years ago, but never utilized it. I figured, with San Antonio College's poor service, I would have all kinds of issues trying to sign up for a course. In a couple of the courses I took with ACCD, I remember having classmates from other Texas CCs. I just might take mycology/parasitology through VCT this summer. That's not an easy course to find.

[publius2k4]

Azusa Pacific University (California) offers an online pre-nursing certificate that covers Microbiology w/ Lab, Anatomy w/ Lab, Physiology w/ Lab, and Chemistry for Health Majors w/ Lab. It is, however, quite expensive. These 16 credits will set you back about 10k. It's also a private christian university, and their website states "Online Degrees Taught from a Christian Worldview." So this could pose a problem for people of other faiths.

Pre-Nursing-Azusa Pacific University


Western Governors University uses Straighterline exclusively for pre-nursing students to complete their hard sciences.

[cookderosa]

Loved the virtual lab link!

I was thinking of taking the TESC Chemistry I,II w/lab courses instead of doing these at a CC primarily because of the schedule flexibility. But if no grad school would recognize this as a true lab course, then I'd have to do it all over again, in which case I'd be better off just doing Chem. Clep now which I already know is not acceptable for my target grad school.

How useless are these home lab kits? Why would they even be offered at TESC since they are not required for their degrees?

Home labs are fun, I did tons of them through Ocean County College which uses these lab kits: Products | Labpaq
Pros- it's fun and cool to set up a lab in your house. I stored ecoli in my refrigerator and grew staph in my incubator. My 6 year old helped me dissect a pig. I'm not going to lie- it was cool. Also could do it whenever I had time, which was always after 10pm~
Cons- CHA-CHING$ Every lab kit was at least $200. I had to buy a microscope & oil immersion lens, and then ended up buying a second second microscope that could accommodate a digital camera lens for taking photos of my slides to include in my lab reports. That brings me to the next con- lab reports. Every class was the same, 12 labs (even in 5 week summer session!)Ugh. I guess you do these either way, but since there is no teacher, I got the feeling that short of recording a video of yourself, they were going to make sure you did every step. I had to take photos of every step and embed them into my reports (hand drawing not an option) and it made histology difficult in every class....till I bought the second microscope Last con, if you screw up, you might not know it. I'm sure my dissections were atrocious, and I'm not completely sure my chem experiments were exactly right.

An annoying thing about multiple online labs specific to the Labpaq company- how many beakers do you need? Once I finished my first class, I had a good stockpile. Well, come class 2, here it all comes again- more supplies and tools. Then the third class.... you get the point. So as my science lab takes over my house, I decided to call Labpaq and tell them I really had everything for the next upcoming class except this and that, could they leave those pieces out (and maybe not charge the full amnt!?) Nope. Pacs are set by the agreement between the college's science department and their company, no changing of any kind. So, I have tons of lab stuff...in duplicate and triplicate and quad-licate (I made that up) but you get the idea. Wanna buy some pipets?

(after reading Sanantone's post, I wanted to add that the labs at Ocean are FOR science majors unless you choose to take an intro NOT for science majors- but none are allied health)

[JohnnyHeck]

Thank you Cookderosa, Sanantone, and Publius2k4 for all that you continually bring to this forum. I am very impressed with your kindness and willingness to help other that go after you.