BA in Liberal Studies CS and NSM Concentration Questions

[Ares]

I am helping someone plan their degree but I have some questions about the BA in Liberal Studies Concentrations. I searched the forums but I could not find an answer for this.

For the 18 credits in the BALS Computer Science Concentration:

A. Concentration (18 Credits)

COS-3300 - Computer Architecture
COS-2410 - Data Structures
COS-2050 - Python Programming

3

Select 9 credits from the following:

COS-4510 - Artificial Intelligence
CIS-3110 - Database Management
CIS-3200 - System Analysis and Design I
CIS-3510 - Software Engineering

1. Do they have to take these exact course names or transfer equivalents, or do they have flexibility for any transferable Computer Science / CIS courses at the same level?

1A. If they have to take these exact course names or transfer equivalents do we have a list here of transfer equivalents?

2. This is also confusing because the Degree Requirements state that "a minimum of 18 credits must be upper level, 3000 level or above, and no more than 6 credits at the 1000 level in the area of study" but they only have 5 (15 credits) listed here for UL credit not 18. So how would you meet that requirement? A: The capstone counts as one of the upper level courses, so that gets to you to 18.

3. I noticed the Capstone has changed and now says "LIB-4970 - Liberal Arts Capstone - Natural Sciences, Math and Computer Science". From what I read here if it was a BA degree the capstone would be on anything Liberal Arts related, I assume that changed and what does it mean?


For the 18 credits in the BALS Natural Sciences and Math Concentration:

Students complete 18 credits of Natural Science/Mathematics courses. For TESU course options go to Natural Sciences and Mathematics.

4. I have read here that this has to be in 2 or more NSM categories but it does not state this on the degree page so can all of these be Computer Science or CIS courses?

Thanks

[jg_nuy]

1. Some of the courses for the AOS electives can also be from the CLD (Cloud Computing) options, or transfers from upper computer science, for example, there is an upper level class (Online Architecture) from ASU that comes in as CLD-4100. For CIS classes not listed, you would have to run them past advising and possibly the registrar/Dean offices for verification of transferability. They generally don't accept data analytics (DAT or DAD) or courses with the ITS suffix for this area.

For the programming requirement, it is not required to be Python and can be other types of programming, but R programming would not count.

2. The capstone counts as one of the upper level courses, so that gets to you to 15.

3. Here is the syllabus - doesn't look much different from LIB-4950:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11AxJ...it?tab=t.0

[Ares]

1. Some of the courses for the AOS electives can also be from the CLD (Cloud Computing) options, or transfers from upper computer science, for example, there is an upper level class (Online Architecture) from ASU that comes in as CLD-4100. For CIS classes not listed, you would have to run them past advising and possibly the registrar/Dean offices for verification of transferability.  They generally don't accept data analytics (DAT or DAD) or courses with the ITS suffix for this area.

For the programming requirement, it is not required to be Python and can be other types of programming, but R programming would not count.

1. Are you referring to just the "18 credit Concentration" or the "AOS as a whole"? TESU appears to define the AOS (Area of Study) as both the 18 credit Concentration and the 24 credits of additional Liberal Studies Courses.

II. Area of Study (45 Credits)

A. Concentration (18 Credits)
B. Complete 24 Credits of Liberal Studies Courses

1B. This brings up another question do the 24 credits of Liberal Studies Courses have to be related to Computer Science too?

[jg_nuy]

1 - AOS electives under the concentration of 18 credits.
1B - The 24 credits in Liberal Studies do not need to be related to computer science - they can be subjects like history, sociology, psychology, math, etc.

[Ares]

1. So you have to do these exact classes or equivalents no matter what?

COS-3300 - Computer Architecture
COS-2410 - Data Structures
COS-2050 - Python Programming *

* Except for the programming requirement, "it is not required to be Python and can be other types of programming, but R programming would not count."

It is frustrating that they do not make that clear.

[AllThose299s]

1 - For the BALS CS, Computer Architecture, Data Structures & Computer Programming Language course are required. The computer programming language course does not have to be Python but not all programming courses meet the requirement (e.g. I had Object Oriented Programming & Database Programming [Prefix of CAP & ITS] & as @jg_nuy points out that R programming).

1A - A list of transfer equivalents for the required courses can be found on Certificate Plan for Computer Science (https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/Sa...er_Science) they might accept Programming in Java or C++ Programming but we know for sure that Python Programming will meet the requirement.

For the "Select 9 credits from the following:..." this is where there is flexibility for other transferable Computer Science / CIS courses at the same level, for example, I have CLD-4200 Architecting Cloud Solutions, CMP-3540 Network Technology (TECEP - My Review) & CIS-310 Management Information Systems running a what-if with my credits.

1B. This brings up another question do the 24 credits of Liberal Studies Courses have to be related to Computer Science too?

1B - The 24 credits of Liberal Studies Courses do not have to be related to Computer Science but they do need to fall under the category of the liberal studies, so if you had a bunch of business credits chances are they wouldn't full into this category.

3 - As of right now LIB-4970 is the same as LIB-4950 was & when I took the capstone, it was when they started grouping the capstones related to the area of study but before they changed the course numbers... and as far as I'm aware, nothing has changed (yet) and in theory someone could write their capstone on anything liberal arts related, HOWEVER, personally I would recommend that if someone is going to have liberal arts concentration then they should expect that their capstone paper should be related to their concentration, because they will be spending about 3 months on and honestly they will probably get better feedback from their peers.

4 - The BALS Natural Science/Mathematics Concentration can be all CS & CIS courses but that doesn't mean that every course will count towards the concentration... Confusing I know, but for example, not all CIS courses count towards the BA in Computer Science, so in theory, if they don't count towards Computer Science and because Computer Science falls under a Natural Science here, then that means they shouldn't count towards the Natural Science.

That being said, I started off as a BALS NSM and graduated with the BA in CS. The BALS NSM gives the most flexibility IMHO, especially if someone has UL in Natural Sciences, Mathematics or Computer Science. If a person already has credit for Computer Architecture from a previous course taken, great then BALS CS should be cake, it wasn't until I got credit for Computer Architecture that I debated about switching from the BALS NSM to a BALS CS. Once someone is at that point, then it really just depends on Calculus & how far they are from getting a BA in CS.

[Ares]

4 - The BALS Natural Science/Mathematics Concentration can be all CS & CIS courses but that doesn't mean that every course will count towards the concentration... Confusing I know, but for example, not all CIS courses count towards the BA in Computer Science, so in theory, if they don't count towards Computer Science and because Computer Science falls under a Natural Science here, then that means they shouldn't count towards the Natural Science.

That being said, I started off as a BALS NSM and graduated with the BA in CS. The BALS NSM gives the most flexibility IMHO, especially if someone has UL in Natural Sciences, Mathematics or Computer Science. If a person already has credit for Computer Architecture from a previous course taken, great then BALS CS should be cake, it wasn't until I got credit for Computer Architecture that I debated about switching from the BALS NSM to a BALS CS. Once someone is at that point, then it really just depends on Calculus & how far they are from getting a BA in CS.

Thanks for your response.

Some of this is so bizarre....

4A. The BA in CS only requires "COS-1110 Introduction to Programming" as a programming requirement.
While the BALS CS requires "COS-2050 Python Programming" (with some flexibility) but its programming requirement is higher?

So the main difference switching from the BALS CS to the BA in CS means taking Calculus I, Discrete Mathematics and taking a total of 30 credits in Computer Science/CIS related courses instead of just 18.

Rant: TESU is really dropping the ball with the BALS degree which is supposed to be a "Studies Degree" meaning it should be more flexible with just making "buckets" of credits. It would make more sense for these degrees to have 45 credits of general electives and just 30 credits in an AOS. Make the BALS CS Concentration have more realistic requirements like just requiring one 2xx level or higher programming language and another 12 credits in Computer Science courses and another 15 in Computer Science or CIS. Keep the 15 UL for the AOS and 24 of the 30 have to be 2xxx level or higher. When they start specifying specific courses it is no longer a "Studies Degree" but a specific major.

4B. Is almost everyone taking the same UL courses from Study.com for a BA in CS? What do you recommend for the 5th UL course?

BUS 303 - Management Information Systems
CS 302 - Systems Analysis & Design
CS 303 - Database Management
CS 306 - Computer Architecture

5. For the BALS NSM do the 15 UL courses have to be in the 18 credit Concentration or can they include courses in the "24 Credits of Liberal Studies Courses"?

[jg_nuy]

4a. The programming requirement can be fulfilled with either of those courses. It can also be fulfilled with C programming which is COS-1160, as well as other options. This is true for both the BACS and the BALS-CS.

4b. CIS-3510 at TESU or the ASU class.

5. You need 18 upper level credits across the entire AOS, so it can be within all in the concentration or a mix of the concentration and the liberal studies general coursework. At least 6 credits will be in the concentration based on the computer architecture and capstone requirements.

[Ares]

4a. The programming requirement can be fulfilled with either of those courses. It can also be fulfilled with C programming which is COS-1160, as well as other options. This is true for both the BACS and the BALS-CS.

4b. CIS-3510 at TESU or the ASU class.

5. You need 18 upper level credits across the entire AOS, so it can be within all in the concentration or a mix of the concentration and the liberal studies general coursework. At least 6 credits will be in the concentration based on the computer architecture and capstone requirements.

4A. Wait so "COS-1110 Introduction to Programming" can fulfill the BALS-CS programming requirement? TESU needs to seriously revise these pages and make these things clear.

4B. This ASU course? CIS 394 Online Cloud Architecture ($450) 

5. Sorry for any confusion but I was asking about the BALS NSM not the BA in CS or the BALS CS.

[jg_nuy]

4A - Yes, per feedback from my son's advisor when we checked out the BALS-CS. However, always good to confirm. They only list one option on their website, but there is some flexibility in most of these things. My son decided that he preferred the BA-CS, given his age. Only remaining challenge is Discrete Math, which will be a challenge. He has done all the other maths.

4B. Yes, that's the one.

5. Not sure about the BALS-NSM, hopefully someone can answer that question for you.