Possible Issue with UK Level 8 Diplomas

[ss20ts]

It would likely be best to stick with UK schools or schools based off of the UK model.   Those schools will likely accept the UK Level 8 diploma in leadership without question.   Baker College which is an online college in Michigan may be a good option as they are open to accepting any courses at the doctoral level for ABD status students towards a DBA.

Agree. Instead of trying to do a UK Level 8 Diplomas and then transfer it over to the US. Why don't you just get the doctorate from the UK? There are some very good schools in the UK that are far more affordable than the sub-par very expensive schools in the US. I don't understand the logic of US only.

If you're in the US then you're forever explaining your education abroad. The logistics can be a pain in the patootie. People in the US do not understand education systems outside of the US. For many people it's not worth the headache and it could cause issues in hiring because of the lack of knowledge.

[lincolnlawyer]

Just my two cents as someone currently in academia overseas with the eventual goal of moving back into academia in the US:

Even in the UK, many universities don’t openly state that they accept credits earned via OFQUAL diplomas, though it is likely that they will recognize them through Accreditation of Prior Learning. That said, whether you get a reduced tuition rate (AKA ‘top-up’) or not is still up to individual universities to decide.

Those that openly offer ‘top-up programs’ are your safest bet, but they’re not necessarily reputable enough to get you a TT position in academia.

On the other hand, it seems like the level 8 diploma isn’t getting favorable treatment by US institutions. So the next-to-ideal situation would be to consider using the level 8 diploma to enroll in a UK-based PhD program, perhaps one with decent reputation, and try using that in the US.

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If you're in the US then you're forever explaining your education abroad. The logistics can be a pain in the patootie. People in the US do not understand education systems outside of the US. For many people it's not worth the headache and it could cause issues in hiring because of the lack of knowledge.

I agree that is indeed the case in corporate/industry, but faculty members with a PhD from Europe, especially the UK, are not rare either. They might be treated less favorably, but certainly are not considered a rare species either.

[HogwartsSchool]

Just my two cents as someone currently in academia overseas with the eventual goal of moving back into academia in the US:

Even in the UK, many universities don’t openly state that they accept credits earned via OFQUAL diplomas, though it is likely that they will recognize them through Accreditation of Prior Learning. That said, whether you get a reduced tuition rate (AKA ‘top-up’) or not is still up to individual universities to decide.

Those that openly offer ‘top-up programs’ are your safest bet, but they’re not necessarily reputable enough to get you a TT position in academia.

On the other hand, it seems like the level 8 diploma isn’t getting favorable treatment by US institutions. So the next-to-ideal situation would be to consider using the level 8 diploma to enroll in a UK-based PhD program, perhaps one with decent reputation, and try using that in the US.

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If you're in the US then you're forever explaining your education abroad. The logistics can be a pain in the patootie. People in the US do not understand education systems outside of the US. For many people it's not worth the headache and it could cause issues in hiring because of the lack of knowledge.

I agree that is indeed the case in corporate/industry, but faculty members with a PhD from Europe, especially the UK, are not rare either. They might be treated less favorably, but certainly are not considered a rare species either.

That was my point for getting a PhD from Europe, if you are going to work in academia. I know very successful people that have MBA, LLB, PhD from Europe and living in the US. I do agree, corporate can be a different beast but even it can be manageable to a certain aspect.

[spohara]

Have you reached out to Morgan State University to see if their ABD programs would accept a level 8? https://www.morgan.edu/college-of-interd...s/doctoral

[FireMedic_Philosopher]

Have you reached out to Morgan State University to see if their ABD programs would accept a level 8? https://www.morgan.edu/college-of-interd...s/doctoral

Personally, no... they do not offer anything in my field.

[newdegree]

You are kind of in a catch 22 where you want to use a UK level 8 diploma but you want a particular doctoral program or major. You might have to settle for just getting a degree with a field you didn’t particularly want like for example a EdD , DBA, or leadership doctorate that will accept the UK level 8 diploma or offers ABD and accepts you into the program. The search is going to be very hard , you might have a better chance just applying for a regular program and doing the required courses if your goal is to get a specific field of study.

[FireMedic_Philosopher]

You are kind of in a catch 22 where you want to use a UK level 8 diploma but you want a particular doctoral program or major. You might have to settle for just getting a degree with a field you didn’t particularly want like for example a EdD , DBA, or leadership doctorate that will accept the UK level 8 diploma or offers ABD and accepts you into the program. The search is going to be very hard , you might have a better chance just applying for a regular program and doing the required courses if your goal is to get a specific field of study.

Sorry, what I mean is that Morgan doesn't offer a business focus or a general leadership focus in that program. So the odds of the level 8 diploma being accepted there might be slim.

They DO have an organizational policy and administration track, which is probably the closest thing.

[bjcheung77]

In short, UK Level 8 Diploma programs all have a possible progression chart, you can't really deviate from that progression list. You can try to go for alternatives that may be cheaper, easier, faster, have better ROI/Value, or to personalize your learning further, but that's only if you can find alternatives, the only one that's possible are DBA related programs. Here's an example of using OTHM Level 8 Diploma.

University of Gloucestershire
OTHM Level 8 Diploma in Strategic Management and Leadership Practice
Entry onto: Doctor in Business Administration DBA

I wouldn't go this route as the DBA from Gloucestershire is going to cost over $40K alone, as the DBA is much more expensive than doing the UK Level 8 and laddering to a degree from Athabasca U, Baker College, Westcliff DBA, or even ladder to a Walden PhD in Management Completion program if any of these accept the UK Level 8 for transfer.

Here's an example of a private institution in France, the Ed.D that will accept UK Level 8 diplomas, the kicker is, the pricing once again. So, you don't want to pay $40K for this when you can do a comparable program at ACE.edu at half the price point! Link: https://paris-u.fr/doctor-of-education/ They also have a PhD in HRM: https://paris-u.fr/ph-d-in-human-resourc...velopment/

Graduates will receive:
Level 8 Diploma (Doctoral Level) under the RQF framework system: The LRN Level 8 Diploma in Education and Innovation Pedagogy
Doctorate in Education (Ed.D) from Université Libérale de Paris

Graduates will receive:
LRN Level 8 Diploma in Strategic Management and Leadership.
Doctor of Philosophy in Human Resources Management and Talent Development degree offered by Université Libérale de Paris

[FireMedic_Philosopher]

In short, UK Level 8 Diploma programs all have a possible progression chart, you can't really deviate from that progression list. You can try to go for alternatives that may be cheaper, easier, faster, have better ROI/Value, or to personalize your learning further, but that's only if you can find alternatives, the only one that's possible are DBA related programs.  Here's an example of using OTHM Level 8 Diploma.

University of Gloucestershire
OTHM Level 8 Diploma in Strategic Management and Leadership Practice
Entry onto: Doctor in Business Administration DBA

I wouldn't go this route as the DBA from Gloucestershire is going to cost over $40K alone, as the DBA is much more expensive than doing the UK Level 8 and laddering to a degree from Athabasca U, Baker College, Westcliff DBA, or even ladder to a Walden PhD in Management Completion program if any of these accept the UK Level 8 for transfer.

The highlighted/bold part was my point BJ. I can't find any affordable RA US based doctorate programs in leadership or management that will accept a Level 8 for transfer... NA schools sure... except that NA programs are a red flag for those of us wanting to go into academia full time...
BJ, do you or anyone else KNOW for a fact of any (affordable) US based RA schools with a doctorate in management or leadership that will accept a UK Level 8 either for ABD purposes, or that will at least provide a sizable number of transfer credits. I don't doubt they exist... I know you have been a big proponent of them for years, I just haven't found them.
Just a bit discouraged by the number of RA universities that won't accept it for transfer credit due to considering it a "completed" program.

[bjcheung77]

None of the ones I mentioned above are NA, they're 4 RA institutions, have you asked any of them? We're asking institutions that have an open admissions policy (or at least, easier, less restrictive, more transfer friendly), and may allow such transfers. Think of it this way, it's the same as institutions accepting ACE/NCCRS credit for transfer, not many will allow that, and the ones you're asking are not as transfer friendly.

Institutions are funny operations, many graduate programs have a certificate or diploma in addition to a Masters or Doctorate. People who are completing some of the classes can complete the certificate or diploma on route to that Masters or Doctorate. The institutions you have asked are denying that simple thing, it's like asking them, and their response is that their own graduate cert/diploma credits can't be used towards that Doctorate as it's a completed program.

There is going to be pushback, you want to provide as many valid questions to them as possible. ENEB/VUL and other transfer options weren't a thing until we decided to try different steps to get into their programs. Same as this example, institutions that are on the CLEP database don't accept CLEP, why the heck are they even on that list? Back in the day, I emailed some institutions and had to go all the way to the dean/director, and in X years, they've still not done anything about it.