Ethical caution

[cookderosa]

My take on it is there is no proprietary information on the content of the tests. All of the tested material is public information and should be available to the person taking the test. You are being tested on you knowledge and comprehension of a specific body of information. In the case of the CLEP it is meant to be representative of an average college course. There is no "secret" knowledge, otherwise how would the test be fair and representative on an average college course? It would be like a college professor giving a test on something he didn't cover in the course.

The test givers have a very wide and deep body of knowledge to draw questions from. For a test taker to to report, for a US History example, "know that Margaret Sanger was a proponent of birth control", will definitely answer one or two questions on the US history II exam. This same information is available on Kaplan's, Princeton Review, Don't Know Much About History. Instantcert, USHistory.net, and probably every textbook on the subject. The student/test taker must still know and remember this information at the time of the test and there is no guarantee that he will be tested on it.

Unless a test taker has specific knowledge of the questions he will receive he simply must know the material to be tested.

My experience in professional certifications has been the same. Specific body of knowledge - Know it - Pass the test.

I don't see any ethical conflicts with a person on the IC boards saying "know this" any more that Peterson's or the College Board offering practice tests. The burden is still on the test taker to know the material when they sit in front of the computer at the test center.

Well that's my view. Now I am back to studying.

I think your comments are excellent. I agree 100%.

[jadechow]

Gary,
While I agree that integrity seems to be something that everyone could use a little more exposure to, I would like to add that as a newer member of the "testing out" community that I don't think I could have survived without the test-specific feedback forum.

Do I think that the exact questions should be provided there for me? No. But, does having a really, really good idea what to expect on the test give me the confidence to take it (and hopefully do well)? You betcha. However, I have to disagree that it violates any "test disclosure" policy.

Obviously the information contained in the test-specific forum is helpful but if it crossed any lines content-wise wouldn't we all be getting 80s? Maybe I am way out of line here but I recall someone on this forum last week who was a little discouraged by just barely passing a test and that was with the benefit of the forum info.

I am concerned that we now run the risk of people feeling that they should not share information for fear of condemnation. Maybe all of this is coming out simply because I am on the beginning of this journey and see a long road ahead of me. I don't know. So, please understand that none of this is directed personally at any one. I do not know what I would do without the kindness and support of the people here. I guess, it's a slippery slope and maintaining a balance is the key.

[thatbrian]

This is what you agree to when you take a CLEP: "I will allow no one other than myself to know the exam questions. I will not disclose these questions to anyone at any time".

My take is that you should not disclose "exam questions" to anyone, but I would say it's OK to share general info pertaining to content, level of difficulty, time needed to complete etc.

Although, I'm no expert -- I haven't taken the Ethics CLEP yet

[ShotoJuku]

[COLOR="Navy"]To me, sharing highlights and hints about what one may encounter on any particular exam is an extension of our classroom discussion.

Make no mistake about this, the IC-Forums is a virtual classroom with many-many students who like those in a B&M setting discuss, share, and analyize the subject matter to benefit of one and all. [/COLOR]

[ShotoJuku]

.....but "there was a question about who was the Confederate general at the battle of Chickamauga" I would think is over the line......

[COLOR="Navy"]BTW: If anyone else here in the classroom is interested you may find the answer here:

Battle of Chickamauga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/COLOR]

[rubbersoul]

I don't see the problem with posting pointers or specific topics on the exam. There are multiple exams and it's not like people are saying " question 1 is.........." "and the answer is B ....."

The majority of the users of this forum are out to share their knowledge and assist other people in the pursuit of a degree.

Times have changed, people are becoming more empowered and are not being held hostage by an antiquated Academic system. It's time to embrace this and stop questioning it.

[greathomes]

Pattie
I sent you a PM.
Thanks Cindy

[Shadowless]

No disrespect to any posters or to IC itself, BUT I have used IC and the specific feedback many times. Now I must ask you this, is there any different between what is posted on the feedback and what is posted on the flashcards? I have taken enough tests to see that there has been many questions on the flashcards either identical or near identical to the actually exam questions.

[keylargo_diver]

I personally lump these one-sided, mandatory if you want to participate, agreements into the same category as software EULAs that state state, for example, that "Big Corporation" has a right to collect user information about you, owns all information transmitted through "thier" website proprietary or not, has the right to enter you premises to "audit" the number of licenses at your site, give up all right to sue and accept arbitration in the city and state convenient to them, etc. You could argue the ethics of these but it would be a stretch to call them fair. You could also say, if you don't like it don't use it. However with one operating system covering over 90% of the market it's very difficult to avoid.

If you take a College Board test and follow their rules, in the strictest sense, you would be unable to discuss the most basic information about the subject. If I took a US history CLEP I would be unable to say "Know who wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin" if it was on my test. Would it more a violation of their rules if I gave you the answer (Harriet Beecher Stowe - 1852) rather than make you google it? It would be hard to discuss any definition type question because there are very limited ways define some terms, particularly in a multiple choice format.

I read, some years ago, the College Board was sued and forced provide the answers to their standardized tests. After being forced to publish them a number of "answers" were found to be incorrect. These are the same people who also said that "cramming" and prep services would not improve your SAT scores. The test prep industry has expanded into a huge market and ETS, the test prep industry, and the students have all benefited.

I very much appreciate the service that the College board provides. With the advent of computerized testing, the ability to randomize the questions from a huge pool of questions, and give each student a different questions regarding the subject matter. Whether it's Peterson's, the College Board, Kaplan's, Princeton Review or a guy who studied and took the test, who says know this it was or will be on the test. I can't see that it harms the student or the system in any way. The test taker must know the material that represents a "material taught in the core courses required by most colleges". It seems to me the student who knows the material, using whatever method available, should receive the score.

So it might be against their "rules" but i don't see it as an ethical or moral dilemma to tell someone "know this" it might be on the test.

[barcotta]

This is a great thread. I love the passion with which many of you are defending your viewpoints. However, we quickly lost the specific issue at hand amidst eloquent essays addressing the general availability and non-proprietary nature of the information from which the test questions are drawn and the concept of sharing information and helpful hints and tips in general. Gary did not challenge the concept of sharing general information. In fact, he endorsed it, so there is no need to defend or protect that process.

I would point to Pattie’s post as a terrific comprehensive explanation of what I believe is the distinction between providing actual questions vs. providing general information and helpful tips.

Gary’s post has nothing to do with the quantity of actual questions divulged—or what distinguishes cheating from learning—or the impact the sharing of a small quantity of actual questions may or may not have.

This “drift” phenomenon is common and almost unavoidable as people try to clearly and comprehensively express themselves. However, to keep this on point, maybe we could try the following:

Gary initially drew a distinction between providing feedback such as "know the major battles of the Civil War, and the generals that fought them" (acceptable) vs. "there was a question about who was the Confederate general at the battle of Chickamauga" (in question). Everyone who has taken a CLEP, DSST or ECE exam has read the various warnings and clicked on various “I accept and understand”-type boxes that, in one way or another, prohibited the sharing of questions from the exam (if anyone knows the exact language—please post).

So—if you believe that Gary’s example of questionable feedback is NOT a violation of the exam rules, please provide an example of what you WOULD believe is a violation—keeping in mind that the standard is not your personal view of what is or is not acceptable, but rather the rule as written in the exam. I think that would put a finer point on your view of this issue. Any takers?