Ethical caution

[yutzyj]

IIf you take a College Board test and follow their rules, in the strictest sense, you would be unable to discuss the most basic information about the subject. If I took a US history CLEP I would be unable to say "Know who wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin" if it was on my test. Would it more a violation of their rules if I gave you the answer (Harriet Beecher Stowe - 1852) rather than make you google it? It would be hard to discuss any definition type question because there are very limited ways define some terms, particularly in a multiple choice format.

I don't have the exact quote either but what I walked away with from the first test I took is that I couldn't say ANYTHING about ANYTHING because it could be inferred that it somehow related to the questions on the test. This would be the strictest interpretation of the wording. I find that ridiculous though. History is history, certain basic things are going to be on the test. Math is math, certain things are going to be on the test. In a sense InstantCert would not be able, nor would anyone else be able, to have study items because this could be inferred as discussing what was on the test. I know that is going to extremes.

Personally, I like to fall somewhere in the middle ground. I think it's fair to mention things to study that could be on your version of the test just like what to review. The bottom line is that you have to pass the test, it's about whether you knew the material or not when you hit that final button.

[iceman]

In all honesty the exams I have taken with the help of these of forums have not crossed over any lines.

I just took the Intro to World Relgions, it was 100 questions and not 108 as some people have stated, even the areas they said to study, were not even on my exam.

But, some of the general areas were, not specfics as pointed out in some posts.

I have not seen any questions yet that flat out give you answers on any of my tests.

[iceman]

What do I think? I agree--although I'm less worried about reputation and more worried about more serious potential repercussions. I've also noticed a little more moderator modification of posts recently and I think that they should excercise their edit power whenever borderline feedback is provided so that we remain CLEARLY in-bounds when it comes to providing exam feedback.

I have made a conscious attempt when providing feedback to make sure I kept my contributions general--so as not to violate any rules. I basically tried to model them after the style provided by the CLEP guides, DSST fact sheets, etc.

I would recommend the following as a guide:

If YOU created the test and established a rule prohibiting test-takers from divulging the questions on the test, would YOU consider what you've provided as feedback a violation? If you tell people that they need to know a specific general from a specific battle--what HAVEN'T you divulged? The fact that the question might not be on every test is completely irrelevant with respect to the rule.

As to the question asked by Shadowless, let me provide this heavily-edited response:

Your implication is not only inaccurate based on the gcalvin post (Gary clearly stated that he's commenting on developments he's noticed lately--he's LONG since passed all his tests), it is also immature, disrespectful, small-minded and otherwise everything that gcalvin and the instantcert forum is not.

I would quit the forums and cancel my subscription if that happens, I HATE ANY TYPE OF CENSORSHIP! If I am a paying customer, I am not going to pay, to have my info filtered or censored, due to someelse having objections to different opinions on a post, or how something is posted.

[bmills072200]

So—if you believe that Gary’s example of questionable feedback is NOT a violation of the exam rules, please provide an example of what you WOULD believe is a violation—keeping in mind that the standard is not your personal view of what is or is not acceptable, but rather the rule as written in the exam. I think that would put a finer point on your view of this issue. Any takers?

Ok - I'll bite on this...

A violation would be..."I had a question that stated: What is the price of tea in China?...and the options were:

a) $1
b) $10
c) $100
d) $1000
e) who cares

And the answer is e"...

That would be a violation as far as I'm concerned.

As opposed to: "I had a question on my exam that asked about the price of tea in China. Make sure you know it.

There is a distinct difference there...

That is my take on it...I appreciate you narrowing it down to the specific issue because it is really about that minor distinction to me.

I do, however, agree with many others that have posted in saying that the "rules" about sharing test information are ridiculous, unattainable and vague.

[Shadowless]

As to the question asked by Shadowless, let me provide this heavily-edited response:

Your implication is not only inaccurate based on the gcalvin post (Gary clearly stated that he's commenting on developments he's noticed lately--he's LONG since passed all his tests), it is also immature, disrespectful, small-minded and otherwise everything that gcalvin and the instantcert forum is not.

I apologize if it was taken as such, I was not attempting to be rude, or immature or anything. I was just wondering if he waited until he finished testing, and used all the feedback provided before he brought this up. I have been using this forum for nearly a year and the feedback has always been the same at least since I have been using this forum. So that's why I was questioning the development part since it's been like this for a long time.

It's hard for me to debate this information because if you (not you personally) are going to ask what is compromise and what is not you are going to run into alot of debate. For example, IC itself, if CLEP or Dante knew about this service I am almost willing to bet it would be shut down.

Clep test itself warns about discussing ANYTHING about the test, and like I have said in another post, IC has several questions that were identical to the questions on the exam. I am sure CLEP and Dante would question where his study material came from to begin with.

My point is, it's hard to debate was is over board. I agree with the above poster, blantely giving out the question and answers is over board, everything else is fair game. I see no difference between the specific exam feedback forum and the IC study cards.

[HawkGuy]

I personally don't think the specific exam forums are crossing the line because they only provide you a guideline of what you MIGHT want to study. They don't list every question and correct answer.

While taking a class at a B&M school, my instructor did reviews with us. He coughed or stamped his foot when something came up that MIGHT be on the test. Most of the time, that topic was on the test. Other times not. Just like Instantcert. But I still had to study my @ss off to pass.

But the fact remains that the specific exam forums only tell us what MIGHT be on the test, and what we should study. I still have to study if I want to pass. To me, that's a whole different animal than telling me every single question and the answer.

[Ronny]

I've seen some posts on the forum lately that I think come close to straying over an ethical line. All of you who have taken DSST, CLEP or ECEs know that part of the process is agreeing not to divulge specific information about the exam. So, for instance "know the major battles of the Civil War, and the generals that fought them" or "the IC flash cards cover the content very well" seems OK to me, but "there was a question about who was the Confederate general at the battle of Chickamauga" I would think is over the line. I don't want to point any fingers, and I don't want to preach or be self-righteous, but what does everybody else think? I've really come to admire and respect this forum, and I'd hate for it to develop a negative reputation.

-Gary-

It is important to know what to study specifically. That is the point of this forum is it not? The advise I have received here has been spot on and I'm glad to assist others with specific advise on any exams I've taken. Knowing how to best focus our limited study time is essential to performing well on these exams!!!

[ShotoJuku]

e) who cares

And the answer is "e"...

I drink quite a lot of tea, so I guess "I care" making choice "e" as being incorrect.

[gcalvin]

This discussion has been great so far. We've seen many opinions and perspectives, each one passionately and persuasively defended. While everyone makes good points, I'm particularly persuaded by what Pattie and Michael had to say.

The Excelsior College Academic Honesty Policy (https://www.excelsior.edu/Excelsior_Coll...STY_POLICY) specifically prohibits "sharing or selling information about examination questions or content via electronic discussion groups or in any other way by a student." It also says that "students who believe that a student has not adhered to the Academic Honesty Policy will bring the matter to the attention of the appropriate dean or dean’s designee." (Emphasis mine) Luckily, so far I haven't seen an explicit violation by anybody I know to be an Excelsior College student. But I think it's important to understand that this is a public forum, and to understand the possible consequences if an investigation by Excelsior or another school were to find what they judge to be ethical violations here.

Again, to be clear, I am not condemning the whole Exam Feedback thread section. Even though the policy prohibits "sharing ... information about examination ... content" my judgment is that confirming what is in the exam content guides, and discussing exam preparation resources that were more or less helpful is not a violation. I recognize that even my interpretation could be in error, and if that subjects me to a charge of hypocrisy, so be it.

Pattie makes the point that this forum substitutes for the typical interaction among students that goes on at a B&M school, and I agree. The difference, however, is that at a B&M school, everybody takes the exam on or near the same day, so the opportunities for sharing exam information are very much diminished. Even discussing an exam with an upperclassman would not be considered cheating, as you will likely take a very different exam from the one they took. I recognize that not all forms of the CLEP, DSST and ECE exams are the same, and that they change every six months, and that does somewhat mitigate the harmful effect of sharing questions. Nevertheless, sharing questions is clearly and explicitly prohibited, and I don't see any way to dodge that.

Anyway, I wanted to start a discussion, and that's accomplished. Thanks, everybody.

-Gary-

[ShotoJuku]

[COLOR="Navy"]Gary you may not be condemning, but I would say that there is some pot-stirring and finger-pointing happening otherwise why raise the issue to begin with? It has certainly raised some eyebrows, possibly some ire too....

I certainly would never condone cheating in any way, shape, or form, however the use of an open discussion forum, like that of a classroom, study-group, or even sharing common experiences should NEVER be brought into question; I wouldn't. [/COLOR]