Ethical caution

[gcalvin]

I've seen some posts on the forum lately that I think come close to straying over an ethical line. All of you who have taken DSST, CLEP or ECEs know that part of the process is agreeing not to divulge specific information about the exam. So, for instance "know the major battles of the Civil War, and the generals that fought them" or "the IC flash cards cover the content very well" seems OK to me, but "there was a question about who was the Confederate general at the battle of Chickamauga" I would think is over the line. I don't want to point any fingers, and I don't want to preach or be self-righteous, but what does everybody else think? I've really come to admire and respect this forum, and I'd hate for it to develop a negative reputation.

-Gary-

[bmills072200]

I see your point, but the example that you gave does not seem to cross the line...to me at least. I think the only thing that would cross the line would be listing multiple questions and answers from your specific exam...and even that is iffy because there are multiple exams for each test. I am all about holding up the integrity of the forum, but I have to respectfully disagree on this point.

[Shadowless]

I disagree as well, there are several different tests, and even with the feedback, you still need to study alot to pass any test.

Also, not pointing fingers either but did you decide to post this topic after you read and used all the feedback you are disputing and passed all the tests needed? Just curious.

[barcotta]

I've seen some posts on the forum lately that I think come close to straying over an ethical line. All of you who have taken DSST, CLEP or ECEs know that part of the process is agreeing not to divulge specific information about the exam. So, for instance "know the major battles of the Civil War, and the generals that fought them" or "the IC flash cards cover the content very well" seems OK to me, but "there was a question about who was the Confederate general at the battle of Chickamauga" I would think is over the line. I don't want to point any fingers, and I don't want to preach or be self-righteous, but what does everybody else think? I've really come to admire and respect this forum, and I'd hate for it to develop a negative reputation.

-Gary-

What do I think? I agree--although I'm less worried about reputation and more worried about more serious potential repercussions. I've also noticed a little more moderator modification of posts recently and I think that they should excercise their edit power whenever borderline feedback is provided so that we remain CLEARLY in-bounds when it comes to providing exam feedback.

I have made a conscious attempt when providing feedback to make sure I kept my contributions general--so as not to violate any rules. I basically tried to model them after the style provided by the CLEP guides, DSST fact sheets, etc.

I would recommend the following as a guide:

If YOU created the test and established a rule prohibiting test-takers from divulging the questions on the test, would YOU consider what you've provided as feedback a violation? If you tell people that they need to know a specific general from a specific battle--what HAVEN'T you divulged? The fact that the question might not be on every test is completely irrelevant with respect to the rule.

As to the question asked by Shadowless, let me provide this heavily-edited response:

Your implication is not only inaccurate based on the gcalvin post (Gary clearly stated that he's commenting on developments he's noticed lately--he's LONG since passed all his tests), it is also immature, disrespectful, small-minded and otherwise everything that gcalvin and the instantcert forum is not.

[keylargo_diver]

My take on it is there is no proprietary information on the content of the tests. All of the tested material is public information and should be available to the person taking the test. You are being tested on you knowledge and comprehension of a specific body of information. In the case of the CLEP it is meant to be representative of an average college course. There is no "secret" knowledge, otherwise how would the test be fair and representative on an average college course? It would be like a college professor giving a test on something he didn't cover in the course.

The test givers have a very wide and deep body of knowledge to draw questions from. For a test taker to to report, for a US History example, "know that Margaret Sanger was a proponent of birth control", will definitely answer one or two questions on the US history II exam. This same information is available on Kaplan's, Princeton Review, Don't Know Much About History. Instantcert, USHistory.net, and probably every textbook on the subject. The student/test taker must still know and remember this information at the time of the test and there is no guarantee that he will be tested on it.

Unless a test taker has specific knowledge of the questions he will receive he simply must know the material to be tested.

My experience in professional certifications has been the same. Specific body of knowledge - Know it - Pass the test.

I don't see any ethical conflicts with a person on the IC boards saying "know this" any more that Peterson's or the College Board offering practice tests. The burden is still on the test taker to know the material when they sit in front of the computer at the test center.

Well that's my view. Now I am back to studying.

[Farmerboy]

What do I think? I agree--although I'm less worried about reputation and more worried about more serious potential repercussions. I've also noticed a little more moderator modification of posts recently and I think that they should excercise their edit power whenever borderline feedback is provided so that we remain CLEARLY in-bounds when it comes to providing exam feedback.

I have made a conscious attempt when providing feedback to make sure I kept my contributions general--so as not to violate any rules. I basically tried to model them after the style provided by the CLEP guides, DSST fact sheets, etc.

I would recommend the following as a guide:

If YOU created the test and established a rule prohibiting test-takers from divulging the questions on the test, would YOU consider what you've provided as feedback a violation? If you tell people that they need to know a specific general from a specific battle--what HAVEN'T you divulged? The fact that the question might not be on every test is completely irrelevant with respect to the rule.

Ditto, I have also been careful with the specific feedback that I have posted. I don't think the issue is black and white but, it does have enough gray area to prick my conscience. I think the moderators should continue to modify as they see fit. They all have done a great job at keeping spam and test codes off this site. Even if nothing comes of this thread it is a good topic to think on and I for one appriciate gcalvin bringing it up.
Now back to my final project !

Farmerboy

[Pattie]

Hey kids...

Let's all take a deep breath...Gary is simply pointing out, and rightfully so, that talking about the generalities of an exam is an ethical way to go about helping out our fellow students. After all, we're doing this without the help of professors or classmates. The listing of specific questions, however (while seeming to be manna from heaven for those about to take a given test), degrades the integrity of what we are all trying to accomplish here. Each of us wants to achieve our goal of a given degree and we are trying to do it as expeditiously as possible...but not with any added advantages that would not be given a student working toward the same goal in a more "conventional" environment.

Just remember that if the option of "testing out" becomes one in which it is felt there is a marked advantage because testers are revealing specific questions to future testers, we will all suffer - it is essential to the integrity of our degrees that we ensure that those who choose to take an exam for credit, gain the credit because of individual knowledge - not because someone before us provided us with an advantage.

I have often sought guidance from those who have taken specific exams that were on my program. Because taking these exams is something which feels as if it is taking place in a vacuum, I've asked for direction. Without a classroom, face-to-face, environment you do not have the ability to ask "Professor-Whatsyerface," what TYPES of questions can be expected on the exam. There are also no assignments to refer to in order to guide you in terms of what to consider significant. The lack of a classroom environment does, indeed, provide a certain disadvantage...but it is the route we chose for any one of many reasons. Being able to obtain the general information that would be available in a classroom in these situations is wonderful.

But...frankly...I worked very hard to achieve my degree. I studied morning, noon and night for the CLEPS, DSSTs and TECEPs I took. And, I sat through classes at a B&M school so that I could transfer Math (ugh!) credits and I spent countless hours doing assignments and responding to discussion board topics for guided study and online courses.

When my diploma (BSBA) arrived in last Saturday's mail - I was thrilled beyond my wildest dreams. And...I was proud to be able to say that I achieved the conferrence of this degree because I had learned that which was necessary in order to be entitled to this degree. Nobody fed me specific questions or answers, and I was the only one responsible for this end result.

I know that for the majority of us on this board, this is what we hope to achieve...the knowledge behind which a degree is conferred. But it is all too easy for any of us to hope that someone can provide us with a little extra help because we are working so hard on our own.

Don't get all over Gary because he is concerned with integrity...it really is something that this world could use a little more of!

[mlwilliamsiv]

Awesome post Pattie! And congratulations on your degree. You must be so proud of yourself...I know I am of you!!!

WAY 2 GO!!!

From a loyal degree seeker,

Marshall

[DetroitSki]

Yea tho I walk thru the valley of ignorance, I shall fear no test. For I have Instantcert. It is the way, the Truth and the light.

[cookderosa]

I've seen some posts on the forum lately that I think come close to straying over an ethical line. All of you who have taken DSST, CLEP or ECEs know that part of the process is agreeing not to divulge specific information about the exam. So, for instance "know the major battles of the Civil War, and the generals that fought them" or "the IC flash cards cover the content very well" seems OK to me, but "there was a question about who was the Confederate general at the battle of Chickamauga" I would think is over the line. I don't want to point any fingers, and I don't want to preach or be self-righteous, but what does everybody else think? I've really come to admire and respect this forum, and I'd hate for it to develop a negative reputation.

-Gary-

I understand what you are saying. I do think that the test question pool is huge, making one or more exact questions insignificant. You could have a dozen specific questions- but that doesn't mean they will be on the test. And at the end of the day, knowing who the general was at a certain battle is actually doing just that- learning something. So, for me, I don't think it's unethical. (for me- I am not saying your compass is off) I have, for example, had exact questions directly out of my CLEP Official Guide. I don't think anyone here has a photographic memory, so the possibility of walking out of a test remembering more than a few paraphrased questions isn't going to cross the line; and to me the line is the division between studying and cheating.