ENEB Master Thread

[cacoleman1983]

The quote threadings are a real mess, mine included. I wonder if there is a way to avoid having quotes come out in a long string like that? A way where just the person you want to reply to is quoted? I've tried to delete parts of these long multi-quotes, but it always manages to erase the entire quote string when I hit submit.

@cacoleman1983 you have a great point. The whole accreditation-by-association thing is not a U.S. concept at all, so while I may not agree with some of the decisions I can understand the thinking at least in WES' case with the unaccredited position on the school. The closest American example I can think of off-hand to what ENEB is doing is Coursera and its deals with various degree-granting schools, but even then they don't claim accreditation-by-association, different from the way it's accepted for foreign schools to do.

I am curious about how SpanTran might evaluate these degree programs.

Seems like I read the answer to this before, but I guess I don't remember anymore: Do you or anyone else know if UCN accepts ENEB degrees? If so, that would be an interesting way to work around the current U.S. evaluator' positions we've read regarding the ENEB programs.

I think someone on the sister forum mentioned Azteca accepting ENEB for transfer credits to their DBA or DEd (obviously fewer credits for DEd) which is then issued by UCN & Azteca. Not sure about UCN itself.

SpanTran probably won't accept it because it's not a Titulo Oficial program
https://www.taicep.org/taiceporgwp/wp-co...tinues.pdf

This PDF document is very helpful.  I'm reading through it and it is amazing the variations of evaluations assigned to many of these foreign degrees.   Since this is a Master Proprio degree through Isabel I, it likely won't be recognized but what is interesting is that SpanTran may still recommend it for transfer credit which goes with my approach for the ACE credits.  I think one should maybe have ACE evaluate the courses from ENEB and use them for whatever purposes that are assigned for working with alternative credit providers. 

Perhaps ECE's evaluators did this without really explaining it by giving it an equivalency of a Bachelors degree in the view that these are alternative learning credits used to add another specialization as oppose to another degree. I wonder would an evaluation from ACE showing all of these courses being recognized as graduate level that is then sent to one these credential evaluators move some of them to atleast half-hardheadedly grant a Masters degree equivalent from a regionally accredited school.

[Cofffeee]

So from this pdf if its not recognized by Ministry of Education- its not recognized by Spantran. So it doesnt make them different from WES. I was considering them for evaluation, but now no thank you. Will go with smone else

[eLearner]

This PDF document is very helpful.  I'm reading through it and it is amazing the variations of evaluations assigned to many of these foreign degrees.   Since this is a Master Proprio degree through Isabel I, it likely won't be recognized but what is interesting is that SpanTran may still recommend it for transfer credit which goes with my approach for the ACE credits.  I think one should maybe have ACE evaluate the courses from ENEB and use them for whatever purposes that are assigned for working with alternative credit providers. 

Perhaps ECE's evaluators did this without really explaining it by giving it an equivalency of a Bachelors degree in the view that these are alternative learning credits used to add another specialization as oppose to another degree.  I wonder would an evaluation from ACE showing all of these courses being recognized as graduate level that is then sent to one these credential evaluators move some of them to atleast half-hardheadedly grant a Masters degree equivalent from a regionally accredited school.

Unless something has changed and I'm not aware of it (that could be the case), ACE only evaluates courses directly with institutions. However, it would be a great idea for ENEB to have its courses ACE evaluated.

---

So from this pdf if its not recognized by Ministry of Education- its not recognized by Spantran. So it doesnt make them different from WES. I was considering them for evaluation,  but now no thank you. Will go with smone else

It looks that way. So all proprio degrees get the heave-ho from SpanTran. Well, not a total heave-ho: they do still recommend them for a credit evaluation.

[cacoleman1983]

Anything is better than "no recognition"

[cacoleman1983]

Overall for the price, ENEB is still a reputable institution of higher education just to get any evaluation at all instead of "no recognition" which is what WES could have done but an ENEB Masters degree alone was evaluated by them as a non-accredited Masters degree from the US. On their own merit, they are equivalent to a state-approved US Masters degree so it is OK to put these as Masters degrees on a resume or CV. When ECE evaluated it, they likely saw it as a part of Universidad Isabel I and gave the evaluation of a Bachelors because the person did not send in a transcript but was evaluated based on the Masters Proprio diploma alone which is unofficial. I'm thinking that if ECE evaluated it on a course by course basis, it would have been evaluated as no degree (possibly university diploma) with 30 graduate level US credits.

[Thorne]

Overall for the price, ENEB is still a reputable institution of higher education just to get any evaluation at all instead of "no recognition" which is what WES could have done but an ENEB Masters degree alone was evaluated by them as a non-accredited Masters degree from the US. On their own merit, they are equivalent to a state-approved US Masters degree so it is OK to put these as Masters degrees on a resume or CV.   When ECE evaluated it,  they likely saw it as a part of Universidad Isabel I and gave the evaluation of a Bachelors because the person did not send in a transcript but was evaluated based on the Masters Proprio diploma alone which is unofficial.   I'm thinking that if ECE evaluated it on a course by course basis, it would have been evaluated as no degree (possibly university diploma) with 30 graduate level US credits.

That's what people are, unfortunately, missing here. WES is not exactly the most friendly evaluation company for foreign degrees (as evidenced by the snafu where a Heriot-Watt MBA got evaluated as an Associate's program a decade ago) and even they recognize the degree as being legitimate, if not "regionally accredited equivalence"

Also, this evaluation could suggest that maybe the program is more similar to NA than State-Approved, since WES doesn't do NA evaluations - period - and bases ALL evaluations on regional accrediting practices that have an equivalent course of study in the USA.

[cacoleman1983]

Hi everyone, I am recently signed up for the ENEB MBA degree and was wondering if anyone used an alternate credential evaluation service in the US. I read through the other thread and it seems like someone evaluated it to a Bachelor's, but I wasn't sure if other services could possibly evaluate into a Master's.

Additionally, if I were to apply for jobs (fortune 500) in the US using that degree and I am already a citizen; would an employer ask to have the MBA evaluated?

Hi, I was the person getting my Master in Project Management evaluated as a bachelor by ECE. I asked about the evaluation and posted the response from ECE with the rationale for evaluating the degree of an undergrad.

I don't know about an MBA, but I imagine that the approach might be similar. I work for a fortune 500 and I was able to add the degree to my HR file, no questions asked. Most American companies with locations in Europe would consider the degree legit, I guess.

Added as a Master's or as a Bachelor's?

I'm doubtful of the value of the entire credential evaluation process, largely because it seems to be designed to maintain the high prices in the US higher education market. I remember on the sister forum reading about how someone got their Heriot-Watt MBA, ranked in the top 500 schools worldwide, evaluated as an Associate's degree and how these ENEB evaluations seem to say it's a 4th year Bachelor's degree where people did graduate-level coursework. What a sham, right?

Think about it. What reason could evaluators have for assuming that the UI1 degree is sub-par? 

• Unaccredited? Nope. The awarding institution, UI1, is not only listed in RUCT and ANECA as a legal institution, but UI1 is accredited by ACSUCYL which is a member of ENQA, meaning this degree actually carries graduate-level ECTS in business.
  
• Not enough credits? Well, 30 credits for a Master's is common in the USA and the program carries 30 credits equivalent.
  
• No capstone? About a third of the degrees I've seen in the US from schools which hold RA have non-thesis/non-capstone Master's degrees and no one cares.
  
• Not enough coursework? Please. WGU, which holds RA and ACBSP accreditation, has 30 page capstones with maybe 15-20 sources each in ther database of projects which were hailed as being excellent, exemplary pieces of work. Meanwhile, now that I'm further in the program, my average paper is pushing 24-25 pages per class at APA6 standards (2.0 spacing, Times New Roman, 12pt font) with 40+ sources each (my moving average increased with my most recent paper) and the MBA requires me to take 68 tests. 
  

The only reason any evaluation company has to claim that this isn't a full and complete Master's degree is pride and a desire to falsely prop up the American higher-ed market.
Imagine, for a moment, if these evaluators granted us Graduate-level titles for these cheap degrees. Then imagine further that people realized you could take a nonstandard route and it would be considered fully legit and complete. From the stats I've seen, FAFSA pays out for basically everyone whose family couldn't afford to pay their child's way through community college, so lets assume someone took the pathway of:

• Finish AA/AS at community college -> Transfer to Big 3, WGU, Ashworth/Penn Foster to finish Bachelor's -> Enroll in accredited Spanish graduate program = $13,000 and ~4 years.
  
• Use ACE to complete most credits -> Transfer to TESU, WGU, or Ashworth to finish Bachelor's  -> Enroll in accredited Spanish graduate program = $10,000 and ~3-4 years.
  

Hell, let's tack on a UNISA thesis-only program for $2,500 and you still save money compared to going to a state school while getting TWO graduate degrees.

There'd be a revolt and the US higher ed industry would fall apart, because the world is shifting away from needing degrees in the first place and this is a cheap option to get a decent quality education in less time, assuming you are willing to put in the effort. Is it prestigious? Not compared to getting into Tier 1 target schools, but that's to be expected. Probably not even compared to state schools if you stay in one region, but as Millenials and Gen Z get older, they want to travel and be mobile anyway. If you're traveling around the USA, how valuable will that state school from Kentucky really be when you're in California? Probably not much more valuable than UNISA, but nearly 10x the price. What about traveling the world? I guarantee you that UNISA carries more weight than the random state school in Kentucky in every country in the world that is not USA or Canada.

This is a very interesting approach.   One thing to also remember is that TESU has a hybrid Bachelors/Masters program where you can complete 12 hours of credit that counts for both your Bachelors and Masters.   One could get the Masters Proprio degree from ENEB and have credits transferred that would overlap for an undergraduate and graduate degree. 

https://www.tesu.edu/academics/bachelors...rs-program

[Stebven1979]

I think ECE evaluated Universidad Isabel I Masters as a RA Bachelors degree not because of the entrance requirement being a 3 year Bachelors degree although they say that to justify their decision.  It's because they probably know it is a proprio degree so they wanted to find a reason not to evaluate it at the Masters level.

They definitely know it's a propio degree, and I'm starting to believe the highly questionable reason they used for their conclusion has a larger intent behind it, and it's most likely to help protect this insanely overpriced higher education system we have here in the United States. After all, they themselves don't want to lose business having schools turn against them and not recommend them or respect them when they find out they're evaluating these super inexpensive programs as 1:1 equivalent.

Hi elearner ! Your opinion is 100% correct . Most of the threads regarding propios are made in America in order to underestimate our European degrees. It’s true that America is losing business from the high turn over from America education . With these posts they making people think that they are not truly masters. Since I’m European I’ll explain you my opinion. In addition keep in mind that even expertos are considered master degrees without the thesis . Personally I have submitted a research in order to graduate with an experto. I have evaluated it as a postgraduate degree since I had a four year bachelor’s in psychology . In the Italian and Greek system you need five years of education so that your master will considered master . It needs a translation of your thesis in Italian in order to evaluate it in Italian as an official. Also it requires in some cases job experience CV, in order to turn it as an official. Postgraduate means that the level is higher , academic professional and technical. I disregard previous posts about Canada and ECE, since I’m European and don’t care what they do there . In my opinion it is good for the Americans to benefit from studies , but on the other hand it is a waste of time if you want a career in the US with a European degree. Bear in mind also that the ECTS credits are powerful and transferable in Europe , and the democracy of some US institutions might have the choice to reject them even though American education is not considered from us higher in any sense . The mathematics we do in high school , Americans learn them in their master year. Anyhow I’m working as a medical specialist even before I turn my postgraduate degree to an official. Now I can land a job working for the state of Italy or Greece with a university degree owns master which is a nomenclature something old . Now everyone seeks in Europe a propio because has the brand of the university. Most of the threads I read about Spanish education are American assumptions . A master degree is a master degree and we don’t need to name them MSc or master of science . I hope I was helpful from my experience

[bjcheung77]

I think someone on the sister forum mentioned Azteca accepting ENEB for transfer credits to their DBA or DEd (obviously fewer credits for DEd) which is then issued by UCN & Azteca. Not sure about UCN itself.

SpanTran probably won't accept it because it's not a Titulo Oficial program
https://www.taicep.org/taiceporgwp/wp-co...tinues.pdf

I reviewed/used a few websites before this thread was created, during my studies, and after I finished my ENEB programs when I was looking at their validity (including the one you linked), basically to determine if they were "good enough" for me to pursue... In fact, somewhat copy/edited/pasted a portion of their info in my post #337 - https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...#pid315119

I'm thinking of going for a "newer" evaluation agency, but I don't want to be the guinea pig, hahaha... Here is the list I created within this thread, post #395 - https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...#pid315702  I would ask members of the board to try out the following, as these are newer, they may not have such a conservative or traditional outlook on education equivalency:

Educational Perspectives, nfp
Member since April 2003
https://www.edperspective.org/credential...rvices.php
https://www.edperspective.org/credential...n-fees.php
General $125
Course by course $175

Global Credential Evaluators, Inc.
Member since March 2004
https://gceus.com/services
General $100
Course by course $175

International Academic Credential Evaluators, Inc.
Member since May 2006
https://www.iacei.net/services-and-fees-for-new-clients
General $125
Course by course $195

International Education Evaluations, Inc.
Member since May 2018
https://www.myiee.org/employment.php
General $80
Course by course $165

[Silvious]

Can anyone try to get it notarized with the Apostille de la haye-ed version of the Isabel I certificate to be evaluated? That might carry some more weight