Nations University call

[rlw74]

They are Church of Christ but the professors are from all over... Baptist, Reformed, Lutheran etc. They volunteer, so the backgrounds are all over the place. The textbooks are used in many seminaries (all different denominations). The actual course material seems to reflect Church of Christ doctrine but I'm not sure students or professors all adhere to those, nor are expected to. You might actually have more leeway with them than with a traditional denominational school like an SBC or Methodist or Lutheran etc

[jsh1138]

"There are multiple versions of religion that can't be proven right"

that has absolutely nothing to do with granting a degree in a given religion, and you (should) know it. if a person thinks Christianity is a lie, go get a degree in something else, that's fine. but complaining that a Christian college won't grant you a degree in Christian studies while you're denigrating every part of Christianity is absurd. of course they're not, nor should they

in the same way, you shouldn't get a degree from an Islamic school in Islam if you think Islam is a crock either, especially if you can't stop yourself from saying so publicly. you might as well complain that your thesis on how "there is no such thing as a star" was rejected by your Astronomy professor

[sanantone]

"There are multiple versions of religion that can't be proven right"

that has absolutely nothing to do with granting a degree in a given religion, and you (should) know it. if a person thinks Christianity is a lie, go get a degree in something else, that's fine. but complaining that a Christian college won't grant you a degree in Christian studies while you're denigrating every part of Christianity is absurd. of course they're not, nor should they

in the same way, you shouldn't get a degree from an Islamic school in Islam if you think Islam is a crock either, especially if you can't stop yourself from saying so publicly. you might as well complain that your thesis on how "there is no such thing as a star" was rejected by your Astronomy professor

People who don't believe in evolution are awarded biology degrees all the time. People who disagree on the reasons behind the Civil War are awarded American History degrees all the time. Most fields welcome challenges and alternative theories; you just need to have something to back those challenges and alternative theories. Groups that don't like to be challenged are groups that are afraid of being proven wrong. And, when you're afraid of being proven wrong, then you're not very secure in your beliefs. 

My point was that you cannot compare facts with theology. There is no doubt that there are stars; you can see them. There is doubt that deities exist. However, if you can somehow come up with evidence that our eyes are deceiving us and that stars don't exist, the field of astronomy and physics would love to see that evidence. They won't kick you out of school if you have the evidence to back up what you're saying. They will reject your thesis if it's not supported by research; that's true for all theses.

The humanities are about studying humans and their cultures. When you study a group of people, you don't need to believe what they believe. You're studying what they believe, why they believe it, and how it affects their lives and the lives of others.

Who said anything about disrespecting religions by calling them "crocks" and "lies?" The post that included the quote you copy and pasted talked about writing a thesis based on what's in the Bible. His or her interpretation of the Bible did not fit that of the religious authority who viewed it. He or she said nothing about calling Christianity a crock or a lie. As a matter of fact, this person believes that his or her theory is biblical. Throughout the history of Catholicism, did their own clergy not challenge previous beliefs and practices within the church?

[jsh1138]

"People who don't believe in evolution are awarded biology degrees all the time."

Biology is not founded on evolution. Christianity is literally founded on God, its apples and oranges


"My point was that you cannot compare facts with theology."

People who believe in a Christian God, which presumably includes everyone handing out Christianity degrees, take his existence as a fact. What you mean is that because *you* don't think its provable that *you* see a substantive difference. That's great, but you're not the one handing out the degrees, right?

[sanantone]

"People who don't believe in evolution are awarded biology degrees all the time."

Biology is not founded on evolution. Christianity is literally founded on God, its apples and oranges


"My point was that you cannot compare facts with theology."

People who believe in a Christian God, which presumably includes everyone handing out Christianity degrees, take his existence as a fact. What you mean is that because *you* don't think its provable that *you* see a substantive difference. That's great, but you're not the one handing out the degrees, right?

Christianity is not founded on the belief that God is omnipresent, which is what Thorne's thesis was about. Do you remember the post that you misread? 

If anyone has proof of anything of significance in religion, then there wouldn't be so many. Every sane person knows that 2 + 2 = 4. There are many denominations within Christianity and some of them do not believe that Jesus was God.

But, this is all a moot point. Some of the biggest and most prestigious seminaries don't care if you're an atheist or a member of another religion because they don't feel threatened. They are happy that others have taken an interest in learning about their religion. Besides, you can't convert people if they don't know anything about you. As long as a religion is unwelcoming and closed-minded, it can expect to shrink.

[jsh1138]

"Christianity is not founded on the belief that God is omnipresent, which is what Thorne's thesis was about. Do you remember the post that you misread? "

I remember Thorne saying he wrote 4 ideas, the *least* radical of which was that God was neither omnipotent, omnipresent, nor omniscient, *according to the Christian Bible*. That's fine if that's what he thinks, but its absolutely ridiculous to expect a Christian organization to award a degree to that kind of thinking.

"Some of the biggest and most prestigious seminaries don't care if you're an atheist or a member of another religion because they don't feel threatened."

Being able to accurately summarize the primary beliefs of a religion is not much to ask, imo. No one is asking Thorne to believe anything


"As long as a religion is unwelcoming and closed-minded, it can expect to shrink."

I would say that its up to them, isn't it? Why pretend to tell them their business?

[sanantone]

"Christianity is not founded on the belief that God is omnipresent, which is what Thorne's thesis was about. Do you remember the post that you misread? "

I remember Thorne saying he wrote 4 ideas, the *least* radical of which was that God was neither omnipotent, omnipresent, nor omniscient, *according to the Christian Bible*. That's fine if that's what he thinks, but its absolutely ridiculous to expect a Christian organization to award a degree to that kind of thinking.

"Some of the biggest and most prestigious seminaries don't care if you're an atheist or a member of another religion because they don't feel threatened."

Being able to accurately summarize the primary beliefs of a religion is not much to ask, imo. No one is asking Thorne to believe anything


"As long as a religion is unwelcoming and closed-minded, it can expect to shrink."

I would say that its up to them, isn't it? Why pretend to tell them their business?

Of course, it is up to them. I'm some know why the West is becoming increasingly secular and have accepted it.

For anyone looking for open-minded seminaries that aren't based on groupthink and don't discourage individual thought, here's good list.

Many programs have shown openness to humanist candidates include Meadville-Lombard (UU focus), University of the West (Buddhist focus), Brite (Texas Christian U, Disciples of Christ), Starr-King, Harvard, Andover-Newton, Yale, Claremont, and Union.

http://militaryatheists.org/chaplain/

I've also seen this school recommended.

https://www.ctschicago.edu

I'm sure that any Unitarian seminary will be fine. This one is ATS-accredited and mostly online.

https://www.unitedseminary.edu/united-life/spiritual-formation/

[Thorne]

That's fine if that's what he thinks, but its absolutely ridiculous to expect a Christian organization to award a degree to that kind of thinking.

Not if it is theologically sound.

Christianity has hundreds of sects and denominations, and non-denominational Christianity is the least restrictive and defined branch. What I said would be accepted by new-age Christianity, and should have been accepted by a school which claims that their theological and ministerial studies are based on logic and evidence.

At the very least, those who disagreed could have offered a rebuttal. Getting a degree awarded from them is the least of my concern. The real problem is that they are so closed-minded that a compelling argument contrary to their "intellectually held" beliefs couldn't even lead to healthy discourse.

[jsh1138]

"Not if it is theologically sound."

if it were theologically sound, it wouldn't be saying the opposite of what the Bible says on the topic, surely?

"What I said would be accepted by new-age Christianity"

The Moonies teach that Jesus was sent to the world to save all of humanity, and failed. They accept that but you could hardly say its theologically sound from a Christian point of view

I get that you think you're right and they should show your more respect but that really is a separate issue from them granting you a degree for saying the exact opposite of what they're teaching

[jsd]

"Not if it is theologically sound."

if it were theologically sound, it wouldn't be saying the opposite of what the Bible says on the topic, surely?

It's been pointed out numerous times that the argument is based specifically on what is found in the bible. I don't have a dog in this fight and don't care either way, but it doesn't seem like you're a part of the same conversation as the folks you're trying to argue with.