online DHSc, NO Dissertation or Capstone, EVMS?

[FireMedic_Philosopher]

I would recommend Oklahoma state university DHA over Virginia university of Lynchburg anyday. I am a graduate of VUL and I will say after attending EVMS and I’m in another doctoral program right now I will say VUL just feels like a low level masters program the work is not challenging besides the research practicum but that’s more due to the professor who is a stickler for what she wants but I heard she lightened up after the first two cohorts due to complaints which is BS. I will say it’s sad when your whole graduation is over 100 doctoral students , 8 masters level students , and 4 undergraduate students. That should be red flags.

I was shocked that they started having financial problems after they started offering the cash cow DHA program. I would have thought that had made them more financially secure. Some former and current VUL employees have accused the president of stealing funds and engaging in nepotism. Aside from VUL not being regionally accredited, I wouldn't consider them an option until they remove the president. The school might never be stable until they replace the leadership.

I agree with both of you, however VUL is currently 10,000 cheaper than OK State. Despite being RA and reasonably priced, unfortunately I feel that will mean that unknowing students will continue to pick the cheaper program.

incorrect, if you transfer 30 credits from a healthcare related masters degree cost is about 17k for the remaining 32 credits plus it is regionally accredited.

Holy Dragons Batman, VUL DHA is now $19,500 plus tech fees. When I went, it cost about $15K minus my employer tuition reimbursement for a total of $5000 out of pocket. The price looks right at OK State, but I would still go for a "real" doctorate like a PhD, EdD, or perhaps a DBA. You will have more respect in academia and the profession overall!

VUL goes up roughly 1,000 in price with every cohort. In 2025 it will be over 20,000.

[Duneranger]

Don't worry! It has been beaten into the NP and PAs head not to use the title "doctor" in clinical practice. It is okay in the academic world but not the clinic and those that have, have had discipline hearings, fines, etc.

Then, I should probably report a practice I used to go to. LOL. I knew I was going to see a nurse practitioner, but I thought the clinic was headed by a physician. It turns out that he has a PhD. On his clinic's website, he uses the doctor title. I had to dig to find out what his PhD is in: nursing. I still don't know where he went to school, and some of the practitioner websites have MD behind his name. One of his NPs also missed an obvious diagnosis, which didn't help my bias against Walden MSNs.

MDs miss diagnoses all day every day. I have seen some absolute F-ups working in the field which resulted in grave consequences. There are some shoddy PA/NP programs, but I would not broadbrush huge swathes of APPs based on one anecdote experience.

FWIW I have been a provider for years and think using the term "doctor" in a healthcare setting is poor form. Some states have laws concerning this. In academia or research, using doctor is fine.

To the OP, as someone who works in a very similar field to yours, skip the doctorate. It wont help you. If your employer will pay for a DNP or something similar, then fine.

But all of these other applied doctorates are a WASTE of time. No one cares and you won't get paid more as a provider.

All they care about is if you can PRESCRIBE and DIAGNOSE. That's it.

[sanantone]

Don't worry! It has been beaten into the NP and PAs head not to use the title "doctor" in clinical practice. It is okay in the academic world but not the clinic and those that have, have had discipline hearings, fines, etc.

Then, I should probably report a practice I used to go to. LOL. I knew I was going to see a nurse practitioner, but I thought the clinic was headed by a physician. It turns out that he has a PhD. On his clinic's website, he uses the doctor title. I had to dig to find out what his PhD is in: nursing. I still don't know where he went to school, and some of the practitioner websites have MD behind his name. One of his NPs also missed an obvious diagnosis, which didn't help my bias against Walden MSNs.

MDs miss diagnoses all day every day. I have seen some absolute F-ups working in the field which resulted in grave consequences. There are some shoddy PA/NP programs, but I would not broadbrush huge swathes of APPs based on one anecdote experience.

FWIW I have been a provider for years and think using the term "doctor" in a healthcare setting is poor form. Some states have laws concerning this. In academia or research, using doctor is fine.

To the OP, as someone who works in a very similar field to yours, skip the doctorate. It wont help you. If your employer will pay for a DNP or something similar, then fine.

But all of these other applied doctorates are a WASTE of time. No one cares and you won't get paid more as a provider.

All they care about is if you can PRESCRIBE and DIAGNOSE. That's it.

My bias against Walden MSNs comes from several anecdotes. Several of the NPs with their degrees who I've encountered have been clueless. I was NOT painting all NPs and PAs with the same broad brush. I specifically stated that I do not mind NPs who graduated from decent schools. I openly acknowledge that I don't think much of schools like Walden and Capella, but my disdain is supported by statistics.

Was it you who spent $160k on a professional doctorate, or was that someone else?

[Duneranger]

Don't worry! It has been beaten into the NP and PAs head not to use the title "doctor" in clinical practice. It is okay in the academic world but not the clinic and those that have, have had discipline hearings, fines, etc.

Then, I should probably report a practice I used to go to. LOL. I knew I was going to see a nurse practitioner, but I thought the clinic was headed by a physician. It turns out that he has a PhD. On his clinic's website, he uses the doctor title. I had to dig to find out what his PhD is in: nursing. I still don't know where he went to school, and some of the practitioner websites have MD behind his name. One of his NPs also missed an obvious diagnosis, which didn't help my bias against Walden MSNs.

MDs miss diagnoses all day every day. I have seen some absolute F-ups working in the field which resulted in grave consequences. There are some shoddy PA/NP programs, but I would not broadbrush huge swathes of APPs based on one anecdote experience.

FWIW I have been a provider for years and think using the term "doctor" in a healthcare setting is poor form. Some states have laws concerning this. In academia or research, using doctor is fine.

To the OP, as someone who works in a very similar field to yours, skip the doctorate. It wont help you. If your employer will pay for a DNP or something similar, then fine.

But all of these other applied doctorates are a WASTE of time. No one cares and you won't get paid more as a provider.

All they care about is if you can PRESCRIBE and DIAGNOSE. That's it.

My bias against Walden MSNs comes from several anecdotes. Several of the NPs with their degrees who I've encountered have been clueless. I was NOT painting all NPs and PAs with the same broad brush. I specifically stated that I do not mind NPs who graduated from decent schools. I openly acknowledge that I don't think much of schools like Walden and Capella, but my disdain is supported by statistics.

Was it you who spent $160k on a professional doctorate, or was that someone else?

Yeah I spent 160k to go from NP to the anesthesia realm so I could make 200k more a year. A DNP is REQUIRED, (it was also 3 more years and not a simple MSN to DNP completion program) there is no way around it and most anesthesia programs are 100k+ and have <5% acceptance rates. You don't have a choice.. I already had a MSN. I would never pay for one if I was going to stay as a NP, it's entirely a waste of money.

For the OP getting a professional doctorate in this instance adds nothing to their career other than personal achievement. I have never seen ONE NP job posting that pays more if the provider has a doctorate.

For teaching nursing a DNP is fine but PhD is really required in academia.

[Stonybeach]

Thanks, Duneranger, for chiming in. Commenting on "diagnose and treat," I would add, that leads to good patient outcomes and patient satisfaction. Titles and degrees are not part of the equation that "really matters" in healthcare delivery. In the over 25 years of healthcare delivery, I really don't remember ever being asked by my patients where I went to school or what degree I hold. Colleagues don't seem to care. It really comes down to patient outcomes!

Regarding training, I recommend a hospital-based university with a hybrid or on-campus program. I had zero problems obtaining solid clinical rotations. You really can't beat the talent and resources this type of program offers.

For the OP, I get it; you want a doctorate for "personal satisfaction," and there is nothing wrong with that! After completing the DHA program, it seems the healthcare sector cares more about years of experience in leadership and/or management positions than the degree. I know a CNO with a BSN because he has years of relevant management experience. I really think the MBA will provide some utility and return on investment overall.

[Duneranger]

Thanks, Duneranger, for chiming in. Commenting on "diagnose and treat," I would add, that leads to good patient outcomes and patient satisfaction. Titles and degrees are not part of the equation that "really matters" in healthcare delivery. In the over 25 years of healthcare delivery, I really don't remember ever being asked by my patients where I went to school or what degree I hold. Colleagues don't seem to care. It really comes down to patient outcomes!

Regarding training, I recommend a hospital-based university with a hybrid or on-campus program. I had zero problems obtaining solid clinical rotations. You really can't beat the talent and resources this type of program offers.

Yeah I actually did a post-grad fellowship (3750 more clinical hours) which was helpful. None of the MDs asked if I had a DNP and I just did my own thing. No patient's ever asked or cared either.

My program was in-person at a state school.

[sanantone]

Don't worry! It has been beaten into the NP and PAs head not to use the title "doctor" in clinical practice. It is okay in the academic world but not the clinic and those that have, have had discipline hearings, fines, etc.

Then, I should probably report a practice I used to go to. LOL. I knew I was going to see a nurse practitioner, but I thought the clinic was headed by a physician. It turns out that he has a PhD. On his clinic's website, he uses the doctor title. I had to dig to find out what his PhD is in: nursing. I still don't know where he went to school, and some of the practitioner websites have MD behind his name. One of his NPs also missed an obvious diagnosis, which didn't help my bias against Walden MSNs.

MDs miss diagnoses all day every day. I have seen some absolute F-ups working in the field which resulted in grave consequences. There are some shoddy PA/NP programs, but I would not broadbrush huge swathes of APPs based on one anecdote experience.

FWIW I have been a provider for years and think using the term "doctor" in a healthcare setting is poor form. Some states have laws concerning this. In academia or research, using doctor is fine.

To the OP, as someone who works in a very similar field to yours, skip the doctorate. It wont help you. If your employer will pay for a DNP or something similar, then fine.

But all of these other applied doctorates are a WASTE of time. No one cares and you won't get paid more as a provider.

All they care about is if you can PRESCRIBE and DIAGNOSE. That's it.

My bias against Walden MSNs comes from several anecdotes. Several of the NPs with their degrees who I've encountered have been clueless. I was NOT painting all NPs and PAs with the same broad brush. I specifically stated that I do not mind NPs who graduated from decent schools. I openly acknowledge that I don't think much of schools like Walden and Capella, but my disdain is supported by statistics.

Was it you who spent $160k on a professional doctorate, or was that someone else?

Yeah I spent 160k to go from NP to the anesthesia realm so I could make 200k more a year. A DNP is REQUIRED, (it was also 3 more years and not a simple MSN to DNP completion program) there is no way around it and most anesthesia programs are 100k+ and have <5% acceptance rates. You don't have a choice.. I already had a MSN. I would never pay for one if I was going to stay as a NP, it's entirely a waste of money.

For the OP getting a professional doctorate in this instance adds nothing to their career other than personal achievement. I have never seen ONE NP job posting that pays more if the provider has a doctorate.

For teaching nursing a DNP is fine but PhD is really required in academia.

Getting a DNAP makes sense.

[Stonybeach]

Thanks, Duneranger, for chiming in. Commenting on "diagnose and treat," I would add, that leads to good patient outcomes and patient satisfaction. Titles and degrees are not part of the equation that "really matters" in healthcare delivery. In the over 25 years of healthcare delivery, I really don't remember ever being asked by my patients where I went to school or what degree I hold. Colleagues don't seem to care. It really comes down to patient outcomes!

Regarding training, I recommend a hospital-based university with a hybrid or on-campus program. I had zero problems obtaining solid clinical rotations. You really can't beat the talent and resources this type of program offers.

Yeah I actually did a post-grad fellowship (3750 more clinical hours) which was helpful. None of the MDs asked if I had a DNP and I just did my own thing. No patient's ever asked or cared either.

My program was in-person at a state school.

You CRNAs rock!

Trivia: What is the antidote for Methemoglobinemia? Scarry $$$Ht!
Answer: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537317/

[sanantone]

Thanks, Duneranger, for chiming in. Commenting on "diagnose and treat," I would add, that leads to good patient outcomes and patient satisfaction. Titles and degrees are not part of the equation that "really matters" in healthcare delivery. In the over 25 years of healthcare delivery, I really don't remember ever being asked by my patients where I went to school or what degree I hold. Colleagues don't seem to care. It really comes down to patient outcomes!

Regarding training, I recommend a hospital-based university with a hybrid or on-campus program. I had zero problems obtaining solid clinical rotations. You really can't beat the talent and resources this type of program offers.

For the OP, I get it; you want a doctorate for "personal satisfaction," and there is nothing wrong with that! After completing the DHA program, it seems the healthcare sector cares more about years of experience in leadership and/or management positions than the degree. I know a CNO with a BSN because he has years of relevant management experience. I really think the MBA will provide some utility and return on investment overall.

Some organization crunched the statistics, and low-ranked/unranked MBAs have a negative return on investment. At least WGU can be super cheap if you work fast. However, if one is not using the MBA for a job, is a competency-based degree really worth it? After all, you're teaching yourself. There are free and low-cost business courses and books.

[Stonybeach]

Thanks, Duneranger, for chiming in. Commenting on "diagnose and treat," I would add, that leads to good patient outcomes and patient satisfaction. Titles and degrees are not part of the equation that "really matters" in healthcare delivery. In the over 25 years of healthcare delivery, I really don't remember ever being asked by my patients where I went to school or what degree I hold. Colleagues don't seem to care. It really comes down to patient outcomes!

Regarding training, I recommend a hospital-based university with a hybrid or on-campus program. I had zero problems obtaining solid clinical rotations. You really can't beat the talent and resources this type of program offers.

For the OP, I get it; you want a doctorate for "personal satisfaction," and there is nothing wrong with that! After completing the DHA program, it seems the healthcare sector cares more about years of experience in leadership and/or management positions than the degree. I know a CNO with a BSN because he has years of relevant management experience. I really think the MBA will provide some utility and return on investment overall.

Some organization crunched the statistics, and low-ranked/unranked MBAs have a negative return on investment. At least WGU can be super cheap if you work fast. However, if one is not using the MBA for a job, is a competency-based degree really worth it? After all, you're teaching yourself. There are free and low-cost business courses and books.

As I said previously, I really don't know anything about WGU CBE MBA, and quite frankly, at first glance, it sounds subpar. There was a post about a $3,000 MBA that looks solid, but it was offered by a school with a campus in NH and Greece. I wonder if that program is still available for that price. There are undoubtedly many online MBA programs to choose from that are reasonably priced and from top-notch schools. My only regret was getting a master's in management with a specialty and not the general MBA, which I feel has much more utility. Then again, it was 100 percent covered by employer tuition reimbursement. It would be interesting to see if the statistics factor in employer tuition assistance and military VA funding.