not good at math? (Outliers/Gadwell)

[EricaJean]

Both of our sons (12 & 16 yrs) are doing very well in math. Their middle school offered math twice a day, if they wanted to compete in math. The 16 year old did it, and the 12 year old is doing it now. Additionally, I had them both do some Aleks over summer break. They came back to school in the fall with a gain in their skills instead of a loss. Because they're now good at math, they think it's fun. I think all kids in public school should take math twice daily. ;-)

[cookderosa]

Both of our sons (12 & 16 yrs) are doing very well in math. Their middle school offered math twice a day, if they wanted to compete in math. The 16 year old did it, and the 12 year old is doing it now. Additionally, I had them both do some Aleks over summer break. They came back to school in the fall with a gain in their skills instead of a loss. Because they're now good at math, they think it's fun. I think all kids in public school should take math twice daily. ;-)

I agree!!
From about 2005-2008 my kids did Robinson Curriculum, which uses Saxon Math for 2 hours per day 5 days per week. That was a pretty rough few years, and I eventually threw in the towel. My kid's pace slowed to a crawl (getting only 1/2 to 1 lesson finished per day compated to when it was 1 lesson per day, which they would speed through) so I 86'd a time plan and went to a quantity of problems plan. We stumbled onto ALEKS shortly after. My kids get assigned 4 topics per day. The problem is, that this can sometimes take 10 minutes, and other times take 2 1/2 hours as I'm sure many of you know. I've been battling with going back to 2 hour math ever since I read Outliers.
I've not yet hammered out the perfect math plan for my children, but I know that longer lessons are necessary (exposure and stamina!)

[Kaz]

As someone who is a math major, and who became a math major because he failed calc1, I'm utterly convinced that almost all of the math that "normal" students can encounter is actually the same "difficulty" level. The only true variable is "can you learn it as fast as the student sitting next to you?" In my opinion, given enough time, anyone can come to understand higher mathematical concepts. It's simply that school is competitive and if it takes you a looooong time to grasp a lot of concepts you are probably much better off doing something else. But it's not that people can't grasp these concepts. It's just that school is competitive and you need to have X-proficiency in it in Y-amount-of-time or else you get kicked to the curb.

[cookderosa]

As someone who is a math major, and who became a math major because he failed calc1, I'm utterly convinced that almost all of the math that "normal" students can encounter is actually the same "difficulty" level. The only true variable is "can you learn it as fast as the student sitting next to you?" In my opinion, given enough time, anyone can come to understand higher mathematical concepts. It's simply that school is competitive and if it takes you a looooong time to grasp a lot of concepts you are probably much better off doing something else. But it's not that people can't grasp these concepts. It's just that school is competitive and you need to have X-proficiency in it in Y-amount-of-time or else you get kicked to the curb.

I agree completely. I withdrew from a physics course because the math wasnt intuitive to me. I knew I could do it, if given enough time to start wayyyyyback and slowly get up to speed, but not while everyone else kept charging forward.

[ryoder]

I agree about the competitive pressure and time thing. I learn slowly in some subject areas, but when I get it I get it. If I were allowed to learn at my own pace throughout school, I would have gotten much farther. I would have spent 2x the time on math, slowed down the class, added more classroom hours, and cut back a little on history, anthropology, English and others. Some students might have had a different prescription for success.

[columbia]

I agree about the competitive pressure and time thing. I learn slowly in some subject areas, but when I get it I get it. If I were allowed to learn at my own pace throughout school, I would have gotten much farther. I would have spent 2x the time on math, slowed down the class, added more classroom hours, and cut back a little on history, anthropology, English and others. Some students might have had a different prescription for success.

This is one of the BIG advantages to home schooling. Custom amounts of time to complete the different subjects will ensure a kid is not sitting around waiting for the rest of the class to finish their work while not having enough time to grasp concepts in another. I was unique that my schooling record is a mix of different types of schooling: 3 years public, a year private, then home-schooled from there. I can testify that public school is a bad environment for learning math, I did not understand division until I was home-schooled (5th grade) and my mom asked me to do an example while she watched (something a teacher can't do if she has half an hour to teach 20 kids math). Near the end of my school days I was completing 3 days worth of math a day, reading so much that I didn't need spelling (I'm serious; and unless you're a teacher how useful is spelling), an average English, and a broad history knowledge (I was done with high-school history in 8th grade and started going through the library, plus WW2 is my specialty). I did most of this in the morning and had almost the rest of the day for other things.

[rebel100]

this is one of the big advantages to home schooling. Custom amounts of time to complete the different subjects will ensure a kid is not sitting around waiting for the rest of the class to finish their work while not having enough time to grasp concepts in another. I was unique that my schooling record is a mix of different types of schooling: 3 years public, a year private, then home-schooled from there. I can testify that public school is a bad environment for learning math, i did not understand division until i was home-schooled (5th grade) and my mom asked me to do an example while she watched (something a teacher can't do if she has half an hour to teach 20 kids math). Near the end of my school days i was completing 3 days worth of math a day, reading so much that i didn't need spelling (i'm serious; and unless you're a teacher how useful is spelling), an average english, and a broad history knowledge (i was done with high-school history in 8th grade and started going through the library, plus ww2 is my specialty). I did most of this in the morning and had almost the rest of the day for other things.

exactly!!!

[IgnazSemmelweis]

I think we have a nation that is predominantly convinced that math is too hard or too difficult.

It's acceptable in this country to say "I'm just not good at math". It's not acceptable to say "I'm just not good at reading". It shouldn't be acceptable to say either. I have a natural gift for math, so maybe I'm biased. You shouldn't be math illiterate though.

[MomOfMany]

I have dyscalcula. I did not know I had dyscalcula until I was 22 years old and upon my mothers death was given a box of stuff she saved from when I was little. One if those things was a sheet of paper in my 4th grade record card envelope saying the school evaluated me and concluded I had dyscalcula. This was at a time when likely no one knew what it was, so I do not think that was just a label generality. It was also at a time when remediation and IEPs did not exist. So my parents figured that sucks but what you gonna do and didn't even bother to tell me. (ETA: I did some further evaluation after that thru my drs because until that moment, I truly did not know that other people didn't see what I saw. I never occurred to me to ask! And no one ever asked me what the numbers looked like! I just thought I was stupid! Or lazy.)

So I went k - 12 never ever being given above a basic mathematics class. I did petition to be in a beginning algebra class, but the teacher kicked me out first day because she didn't have time to bother with me.

Here is what I know.

I know I can do math.
I know it takes me roughly 3 - 4 times as long to do it. Partly because in my paranoia, I usually rework every problem 3+ times to be sure I'm getting it right.

Here is my attitude towards math in our home school.

Math is easy. I do not tolerate phrases such as, "I'm not a math person.". Or "I can't do math." or "math is hard." It is just as easy as reading and writing. Just like with reading and writing, some people need to rereading more than others to fully absorb the materials. Just like with writing, everyone without exception needs to edit and revise and go over their work for accuracy. Just like with writing, that process is easier or more intuitive for some than others, but achievable by them all.

I think the success of a Robinson's 2 hour requirement is not how much math they do in that 2 hours. It is the ingrained lesson that learning takes time and sweat. If my son has to do algebra 1 for 2 years, that's fine by me. If that's what it take to get it, then that is what we do. Not because I am a math ogre. But because there is something of tremendous value in suffering through until they get it. When he complains he feels he is wasting time or feels stupid, I tell him it is only a waste when you quit. I tell him persistence isn't stupid, it's a requirement for success in just about anything in life.

No one in my house is a math genius. But none of them hate math or expect to finish it quickly every day.
And frankly, that is 80% of the battle in our instant gratification society, imnsho.

[All-American]

I'm not in love with math. It has helped that I was completely home educated and was able to work at my own pace, yet I still find it a very great weak spot.

The public school system and society seems to encourage us to be lazy and not challenge ourselves. I have had a love for reading since I was in early elementary school. History is my strong point (also government, politics, etc.). Now I'm working toward my degree...

One of my younger sisters learned to read at age four, now she is thirteen. She is an avid reader. Her accomplishments include reading a Nancy Drew Mystery in less than an hour (about a year ago), the Phantom of the Opera in a day, seven of the original Elsie Dinsmore books in two days, etc.

We need to inspire our coming generation, that is the greatest thing that is lacking. We have a spineless society that has no goals beyond getting out of school!!