Why Charter Oak State College is better than Thomas Edison State College

[SteveFoerster]

Did you have any problems learning English in America growing up? I think my grasp of English is greater than yours... So you know in India, because the British ruled for centuries, we are bilingual in both English and Hindi generally from the day we are born - it's why so many jobs are outsourced there...

Hmm. Well-to-do areas, perhaps, but not everyone. The Wikipedia article on Indian English says that "According to the 2005 India Human Development Survey, the surveyed households reported that 72 percent of men did not speak any English, 28 percent spoke some English, and five percent spoke fluent English. Among women, the corresponding percentages were 83, 17, and 3." On the other hand, I suppose even if just four percent of Indians speak English fluently that still means fifty million people, which is plenty to accommodate outsourcing.

By the way, I'm quite familiar with international higher education, and people shouldn't bash Indian universities. Saying their degrees are worthless just makes whoever says so look ignorant, because it's demonstrably untrue.

[lavagirl]

I passed TECEPs through ProctorU and it was huge plus for me personally. "Different strokes for different folks".

[defscarlett]

We really need 13 pages of redundancy?

[Photog]

....

Why such a big problem with TECEPs being hard? I thought the point was to get an education, that means learning stuff, not just passing a bunch of easy tests that can be worked around. Many students are interested in actually learning, or enjoy learning the material, and maybe because they want to have knowledge to back up their piece of paper and function well in this world. A TECEP is an OPTION... simple.

Writing things like:

(which you want to do as taking coursework is lengthy, involves a lot of stupid homework assignments, quizzes, exams, discussions, etc. over 3 months, and costs hundreds to thousands of dollars more)

This shows what you actually think of education. If some people learn more from doing stupid homework, and all the other stuff, then that way of education is better for THEM. Some people have life experience and can do tests, some people prefer studying on their own, some people learn more from videos etc etc etc. They are choices that are available.

"I’ve taken 3 statistics courses – not just the fluff courses through ALEKS – and I am a data scientist by profession, so I’d like to think I know a thing or two about statistics"

So you are discrediting ALEKS courses as fluff yet you have them on your degree plan. How are you helping someone get an EDUCATION?

You seem to be of the conclusion that people here are just out to get an easy college degree without learning, or they are somehow trying to hack the US education system. Many people here are trying to get an EDUCATION, they actually put in a lot of time and effort to learn things, and then test out of those things or find other ways of getting credit. I spent a long time learning statistics and then completed the ALEKS course, but according to you it's fluff?

What about the homeschooling parents that come here trying to get a good education for their children, they are not out to get an easy ride at all, they are looking for education options. Then there are those that are less fortunate and don't have access to expensive college courses so they learn the best they can.

You need to rethink your approach to helping others here. If your intention is to help people with their degree, then trying to discredit choices because 'you think you are awesome at degree planing' is not really helping anyone at all. A more humble approach to helping and sharing degree plans will go down a lot better.

Education is not a competition, you might of been better off posting your plan and focusing on COSC, break down the costs for everyone. There is no need to try and beat TESC on price, there is no point at all.

I looked at your plan and it's impossible for me to follow, I can't do FEMA and I can't do CLEP tests. Your plan doesn't work for me, and quite a number of others that visit this forum.

[KittenMittens]

Why such a big problem with TECEPs being hard? I thought the point was to get an education, that means learning stuff, not just passing a bunch of easy tests that can be worked around. Many students are interested in actually learning, or enjoy learning the material, and maybe because they want to have knowledge to back up their piece of paper and function well in this world. A TECEP is an OPTION... simple.

There’s nothing wrong about getting a degree in the easiest, quickest, and most convenient way possible. I think more people are mainly looking to get a regionally accredited degree rather than for “getting an education” whatever that means. If that’s the case there are arguably better methods in doing so such as through MOOCS, or even traditional institutions where you sit in a class 3 times a week, doing labs, and get a betting immersion in the subject than through a subject exam that can be studied and passed in a few hours. You have to realize that a degree where you place out of, where there are no real standards for admission, and where there is no real way to test reading, writing, or quantitative skills can elicit doubts by prospective programs/employers (probably not employers but the point is there). There's always a catch to anything - and by quickly getting credit without the tutelage of a direct professor, classroom, etc. can be strongly perceived as lacking depth and breath in the subject.

You just can’t become a professional by studying for a few exams and becoming an expert as a result. Would you want your doctor to have studied for exams without any clinical experience?

....This shows what you actually think of education. If some people learn more from doing stupid homework, and all the other stuff, then that way of education is better for THEM. Some people have life experience and can do tests, some people prefer studying on their own, some people learn more from videos etc etc etc. They are choices that are available.

Again there’s nothing wrong with what I’m advocating for getting a degree in the quickest and easiest way possible. It's a common complaint by many students that college is slow, inefficient, and expensive. I have taken college courses where it would be stretched over 3.5 months, and it really could have been cut down by quite a bit. Don't mistake education with sitting in a classroom or passing an exam. It's not the same and if you think it is, well, then you're very mistaken.

That’s what instantcert.com is about, and many people have designed programs (i.e. 123collegedegree.com and bain4weeks.com and many other members on the forum), and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that approach. Yes, a degree, in my opinion, is definitely watered down when you’re bypassing 4 years worth of training by getting credit in a year. Yes, the college degree has become watered down, and a piece of paper. For most people it's because a piece of paper that needs to be checked off so they can advance in their career. It is a barrier of entry today whereas it wasn't 30 years ago. That's a big reason why you are seeing so many older people going back to college because there is an economic incentive and pressure in doing so (and if they really cared about the education, I'd question why they didn't do it after high school - of course each case is different, but I'd wager that many just didn't feel the need to go to college). Anyone who says otherwise is just not being honest about that.

I’ve taken 3 statistics courses – not just the fluff courses through ALEKS – and I am a data scientist by profession, so I’d like to think I know a thing or two about statistics”

So you are discrediting ALEKS courses as fluff yet you have them on your degree plan. How are you helping someone get an EDUCATION?

It’s not my concern about helping someone get an "education" through a traditional college. A liberal arts education is one of the most wasteful and expensive ways of learning something. Look at all the liberal arts degree kids who are saddled with $50,000 in debt and end up working as baristas as Starbucks today with their bedazzling college degree. There are free sources for learning something if you truly want to like MOOCS that are usually superior to the method most colleges teach. You can have access to the best and brightest instructors, methods, and materials thanks to free college courses online, albeit without any credit of course, but for the purest sense of learning, these are some of the best sources possible. For instance, right now I am taking a course on Machine Learning through EdX with Andrew Ng of Stanford - and I could say without a doubt this is the best class on the subject. The fact it's from Stanford is not a coincidence. Most people are trying to get a degree so they can get a job promotion or career advancement. If that is your stance, then the program is not for you.

You seem to be of the conclusion that people here are just out to get an easy college degree without learning, or they are somehow trying to hack the US education system. Many people here are trying to get an EDUCATION, they actually put in a lot of time and effort to learn things, and then test out of those things or find other ways of getting credit. I spent a long time learning statistics and then completed the ALEKS course, but according to you it's fluff?

Considering that ALEKS has no proctors, anyone can take the exam for you and get credit, I’d say that’s the definition of fluff and unverifiable. There is no accountability. I am actually shocked that ALEKS is accepted by some institutions and surprised that there is no proctor component, but hey, I’m not one to complain. If you truly want to show how much you’ve learned, maybe you should have sought a different option one where there was a proctor, in a formal setting, with controlled, timed tests, quizzes, homework assignments, and feedback by an instructor. ALEKS is watered down because it lets you keep on indefinitely retaking the exams until you finally get the credit. It used to be the case where if you didn't understand something you wouldn't pass - and you've have to be a lot more careful the next time to be sure to pass. But by allowing anyone to get easy credit (and that's what ALEKS is), it does water down things quite a bit. If you don't think it is, then we should let anyone take credits on their own time, without any proctor, for virtually every examination - but we just don't do that then do we?

What about the homeschooling parents that come here trying to get a good education for their children, they are not out to get an easy ride at all, they are looking for education options. Then there are those that are less fortunate and don't have access to expensive college courses so they learn the best they can.

Well, with financial aid, a poor student over the last 20-30 years has had all the means and tools needed to enter and finish college. You don’t need to do expensive college courses, you can go through a state school which is affordable and take out loans like most students tend to do. Furthermore, there was more of an incentive decades ago to go to college because it was far cheaper back then (adjusted for inflation as well). College over the last 20 - 30 years has soared way past inflation so if there was a "right" time to do (most people go to college after high school), it would have been back then.

You need to rethink your approach to helping others here. If your intention is to help people with their degree, then trying to discredit choices because 'you think you are awesome at degree planing' is not really helping anyone at all. A more humble approach to helping and sharing degree plans will go down a lot better.

Well, maybe that’s just your perception of things, and your opinion which is fine, but I’ve hardly discredited other people’s choices, so please don’t make straw man arguments. If my plan doesn't work for you then you should look elsewhere. It sounds like you're more critical for the sake of being critical more than anything else mainly because you think I am disparaging "education in general." However, studying a few hours for an exam passing it is nowhere as involved as a typical college course, and if you want the "full learning experience" that you speak of, I'd suggest going to a traditional program instead.

Education is not a competition, you might of been better off posting your plan and focusing on COSC, break down the costs for everyone. There is no need to try and beat TESC on price, there is no point at all.

It wasn’t intentional to beat TESC on price, it just ended up like that - and if you read carefully what I wrote that wasn't my primary concern - it was about the lack of test prep materials for TECEP. Education is always a competition, just like everything else in life, and in the American ecosystem is about competition and capitalism - whoever makes the best product tends to win. It’s what made this country great, and make its the best in cutting edge research, and technology.

I looked at your plan and it's impossible for me to follow, I can't do FEMA and I can't do CLEP tests. Your plan doesn't work for me, and quite a number of others that visit this forum.

If you can’t handle CLEP tests, then the plan isn’t for you & perhaps none of the other plans work for you. I am sure there is a sizable group of people where my plan will work for as I am not the only one to have done this.

[COLOR="#800080"]I think Mark Twain said it best: "Don't let schooling interfere with your education."

[/COLOR]Best of luck.

[cookderosa]

We really need 13 pages of redundancy?

Oh come on now, this isn't fun?:confused:

Here's a story... when I was a culinary student, I learned how to make fantastic and elaborate garde manger platters (google it). But the fact remains, no one eats this crap. Still, it's a skill, and I have it. As a new grad, I was pretty invested in doing food I wanted to do. I wrote a lot of menus that no one bought, and was offended that my uneducated, unsophisticated customer didn't know what good food was.
But, then you learn (or not) that zeroing in on your customer's satisfaction is how you get a gold star. That lesson took me several years to really understand, and the crux of the story is...well... possibly lost in the heat of this thread, but I feel like this thread is arguing over fois gras or sweet breads.

[KittenMittens]

Oh come on now, this isn't fun?:confused:

Ah Cookderosa, you were one of the people who felt that TECEPs were too hard. What were your thoughts about them, did you take any more TECEPS and would you have preferred to take any other institution's exams instead if you could? My central argument is that TECEPs are too tedious for the fact that you have to read a textbook, that there are no review materials, no practice exams, no student feedback, etc. They're generally poorly supported and many have people have agreed on that point as well.

You had stated, “I only took 1 TECEP as a student, but took a year's worth of classes. I wouldn't take another TECEP and I wouldn't get excited about the option. I found TECEP to be much harder than CLEP and much harder than my classes. Mine (Nutrition) was text-book specific and written by a 2nd grader. Okay, maybe not, but it was awful. I remember one question was "what is the most popular sandwich in America" and most questions were short answer / fill in the blank that you wouldn't know without the text.”

I would urge anyone who wants to complete a degree under the path of least resistance to steer clear of these exams for the reasons you mentioned above.

[smf6824]

Is this conversation really taking place? I am sure someone has already stated this, but seriously who cares? People are grown adults so just let them decide what they want.

[Photog]

Again there’s nothing wrong with what I’m advocating for getting a degree in the quickest and easiest way possible. It's a common complaint by many students that college is slow, inefficient, and expensive. I have taken college courses where it would be stretched over 3.5 months, and it really could have been cut down by quite a bit. Don't mistake education with sitting in a classroom or passing an exam. It's not the same and if you think it is, well, then you're very mistaken.

Just because you feel it could have been cut down doesn't make it stupid, someone else may need more time in the classroom. SOME people LEARN better by taking classes, SOME people do need all that 'stupid' stuff, SOME people prefer other ways of learning, and SOME people already have years of experience and can test out easily etc etc etc. Just because you think homework, discussions, quizzes etc are 'stupid' doesn't make it so. SOME people actually prefer to learn that way, and enjoy doing those things.

I won't comment about why people did or didn't get an education, or why they are getting one now. Everyone has different reasons and it's best not to try and lump them all together in a huge assumption, it just doesn't work. I certainly don't fit into your assumptions..but I guess that makes me dishonest right.

It’s not my concern about helping someone get an "education" through a traditional college.

Who said anything about traditional college. People here are helping each other get an education. It's not a way to get around the system, people are offering options and ways to go about getting an education.

You are questioning ALEKS having no proctors yet praising MOOCs?

Honesty, integrity - I have no need to cheat the ALEKS system, thanks.

Well, with financial aid, a poor student over the last 20-30 years has had all the means and tools needed to enter and finish college. You don’t need to do expensive college courses, you can go through a state school which is affordable and take out loans like most students tend to do.

You are assuming that everyone has access to financial aid, many people don't have any financial aid in this world.

it was about the lack of test prep materials for TECEP

There are full courses available for free for some TECEPs, there are books available and suggested readings for each test, there are many videos all over the net, there are many websites to learn the material for free.

Why do you keep insisting on trying to knock this OPTION for people.

If you can’t handle CLEP tests

You have taken 'I can not do FEMA or Clep tests' as meaning I can't handle them, interesting. Try thinking of some other reasons why those things might not be available to a number of members that visit this forum.

[Photog]

I think Mark Twain said it best: "Don't let schooling interfere with your education."[/U]

Grant Allen....


Interesting that you chose that quote, it fits well with TESC being promoted as a college for adult learners