We Have Moved on From the Basic “Big 3” Colleges and Now Have CBE Big 3 and Others

[nyvrem]

once UMPI comes out with their CB CS program, they'll rule the forums ~ !

[origamishuttle]

As was already stated above, PUG might not quite be Big CBE ready.

I wholeheartedly agree that PUG is questionable to include. The amount of writing makes it very specific to the type of student that can be successful in completing a PUG ExcelTrack degree in four or less terms.

Does UMass Global? I don't know enough about their program to speculate.

This is something I've been wondering too. The tuition for MyPath is on par with WGU: https://www.umassglobal.edu/tuition-and-aid/tuition
One drawback is that it's not nearly as easy as WGU to determine in advance how previous courses will transfer, and they still list retired certifications like MS 98-365 as requirements for completing courses: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1...7hIHaULfCI
Someday I may try to sign up using my employer's reimbursement program just to see what it's like, but for now there are definitely questions.

Southern New Hampshire University

The positives of this school are that it is the most popular online school, has the largest variety of degree programs out of the schools we recommend, and the courses are around 20 hours with easy grading. The downside is you can only take 2 courses at a time, and the cost overall is higher than the colleges we recommend at $960 per course.

This is confusing, given that:

• WGU by any count should be the most popular online school.
  
• The structure of classes and tuition appear to be similar to COSC.
  

Two courses? 20 hours with easy grading? Can you please provide one or more citations?

[studyingfortests]

Honestly, I feel like the Big Three is now down to the Big Two, and I don't think it's at all true that "the big three shine as brightly as they always have." COSC seems to have literally thumbed their nose at anyone seeking alt credit/fast completion. They are far more restrictive, have more specific distribution requirements, reject a lot of alt credit sources outright, and, quite honestly, don't seem to have much of anything going for them at this point. They might as well have put out a press release that said "Don't come here if you are looking for a rapid completion, flexible program."

On the other hand, I'd argue that UMPI seems to have completely supplanted the uniqueness and value proposition that Charter Oak once held. So maybe there's still a Big Three, just not the same Three as it once was.

c

[carrythenothing]

Southern New Hampshire University

The positives of this school are that it is the most popular online school, has the largest variety of degree programs out of the schools we recommend, and the courses are around 20 hours with easy grading. The downside is you can only take 2 courses at a time, and the cost overall is higher than the colleges we recommend at $960 per course.

This is confusing, given that:

• WGU by any count should be the most popular online school.
  
• The structure of classes and tuition appear to be similar to COSC.
  

Two courses? 20 hours with easy grading? Can you please provide one or more citations?

At least in terms of two courses at a time, it looks like SNHU considers two classes/8-week term to be full-time (under "Part-time or Full-time Student: How Many Classes is Full Time?"): https://www.snhu.edu/about-us/newsroom/e...ne-student

[dfrecore]

Honestly, I feel like the Big Three is now down to the Big Two, and I don't think it's at all true that "the big three shine as brightly as they always have."  COSC seems to have literally thumbed their nose at anyone seeking alt credit/fast completion.  They are far more restrictive, have more specific distribution requirements, reject a lot of alt credit sources outright, and, quite honestly, don't seem to have much of anything going for them at this point. They might as well have put out a press release that said "Don't come here if you are looking for a rapid completion, flexible program."

On the other hand, I'd argue that UMPI seems to have completely supplanted the uniqueness and value proposition that Charter Oak once held.  So maybe there's still a Big Three, just not the same Three as it once was.

c

I meant the Big 3 as a whole, not each school individually.  And, there are many, many people for whom CBE is not an option.  I am one, as are my kids.  My husband would probably do very well with CBE.

I also know plenty of people who have the credits already to circumvent COSC's issues.  For anyone who has already taken a lot of UL courses, and wants to consider a school that will let them choose a major, COSC is a great option for a great price.  Not everyone needs a ton of alt-credit (I know several people who dropped out of college their senior or junior years with a boatload of UL credit, and then never went back, and just need 20-30 LL credits in specific places to get a degree).

And I still maintain the The Big 3 cannot include schools that don't allow you to bring in 95% of your credits.  While UMPI is a fine school with a fine CBE program, you still have to take 30cr there.  Hence, no ability to be one of The Big 3.  They are something else entirely.

[ss20ts]

This is confusing, given that:

• WGU by any count should be the most popular online school.
  
• The structure of classes and tuition appear to be similar to COSC.
  

Two courses? 20 hours with easy grading? Can you please provide one or more citations?

WGU has fewer students than SNHU. SNHU also has a campus in NH so you can attend in person.


SNHU is on a term based schedule. It's not CBE like WGU. Term based systems always have limits on how many courses you can take at a time. There are numerous posts on this forum and elsewhere online about the level of difficulty of the grading at SNHU.

[bjcheung77]

Categorizing these institutions seems like a pretty good idea, as some are great with alternative credit by course or test-out, others are good with assessments and assignments (CBE), some like the alternative asynchronous online version of butt-in-seat courses, etc.

I suggest categorizing them into three options, an example instead of Original Big 3, we can rename it to the following:
- Big 3 for Max Credit Transfer
- Big 3 for Competency Based Education
- Big 3 for Asynchronous Online

[dfrecore]

Categorizing these institutions seems like a pretty good idea, as some are great with alternative credit by course or test-out, others are good with assessments and assignments (CBE), some like the alternative asynchronous online version of butt-in-seat courses, etc.  

I suggest categorizing them into three options, an example instead of Original Big 3, we can rename it to the following:
- Big 3 for Max Credit Transfer
- Big 3 for Competency Based Education
- Big 3 for Asynchronous Online

I like:

 - Big 3 (95% transfer)

 - CBE (not sure we need a Big 3 or even that there is a Big 3 - WGU is very limited in degrees to Business, IT, Teaching, Nursing; UMPI has it's own limits but kind of rounds out WGU - PUG is limited as well for ExcelTrack, and may not be a good option for most people)

- HCT schools (High-credit transfer, can bring in 75% in transfer credit, accepts ACE for at least 50%, costs less than $15k for 30cr)

[LevelUP]

This is confusing, given that:

• WGU by any count should be the most popular online school.
  SNHU passed WGU in terms of enrollment count so they are the most popular online college in the U.S. now. 
  
• The structure of classes and tuition appear to be similar to COSC.
  

Two courses? 20 hours with easy grading? Can you please provide one or more citations?
"It takes me 2-5 hours a week for two classes. "
"I'm in one lower level class currently and I spend maybe 6-8 hours tops on the whole class -readings, short answers, discussions, etc"
Each course require 3-8hrs of work per week for each course.  (20hrs per course is low end estimate)

The CBE Big 3 is based on what is most popular here on DegreeForum for now.

PUG has lots of papers, but so do TESU and SNHU. It's still far less work than a typical butt-in-seat college course, and it is easy to get A's. If you max out alt transfer credits, then you only have to do 8 courses at PUG. A recent student of PUG said it was around 20-25hr week worth of work for nearly 7 courses done in one term.

The downside for UMASS is for ACE, you need to score 81.5% not the 70% for transfer of credits. I personally like colleges that are weighted in the student's favor, and requiring a high grade for transfer makes it easier to fail. 

[Alpha]

Honestly, I feel like the Big Three is now down to the Big Two, and I don't think it's at all true that "the big three shine as brightly as they always have."  COSC seems to have literally thumbed their nose at anyone seeking alt credit/fast completion.  They are far more restrictive, have more specific distribution requirements, reject a lot of alt credit sources outright, and, quite honestly, don't seem to have much of anything going for them at this point. They might as well have put out a press release that said "Don't come here if you are looking for a rapid completion, flexible program."

On the other hand, I'd argue that UMPI seems to have completely supplanted the uniqueness and value proposition that Charter Oak once held.  So maybe there's still a Big Three, just not the same Three as it once was.

c

I am not an historian of the Big 3 but I believe that once upon a time it was possible to do 100% of the credits through some transfer mechanism.  The credits themselves were coming from virtually everywhere.  FEMA credits were a favorite as they were essentially effortless to collect.  At some point they became more restrictive with transfer credits and began requiring some sort of capstone project.  Those 2 developments brought the shine down a bit, in my mind at least.  That is, if your standard of value is "cheaper-faster."  Personally, I think the value of the degree went up when they added the capstone.  I don't track costs but they're still among the cheapest.  That's good.  I'd make it even cheaper.  Just figuring out the rules, potential transfer credits,  alternate credits, and all that stuff is like taking a course.  The people who go this route are scrappers in the best sense of the word.  We know that determination is the quality most highly corelated to success.  As was said recently in another thread, there are not these sorts of options for students in other countries.  The Big 3, as credit aggregators, are a uniquely American thing.  I think it's good.  It works for a segment of the student population. I think it would be better if there were available even more flexible options.  I'd like to see something geared toward Neurodivergent flexibility- programs designed for ASD/ADHD students.  Personally, I actually do better by taking organized courses.  Partially it's because I do better with external deadlines, specific assignments, etc. to help me organize the material.  I don't mind the chat assignments and try to take them seriously (even though I know that some others don't.)  I tend to take courses that are writing intensive and I have a strong preference for the 16 week semester.  I know that makes me hopelessly old fashioned, but it is what it is.  I'm glad that people have a wide range of options available and I'd like to see it get wider.  I think the mergers we've been seeing continue to keep places alive.  I think schools need to address the real problems of real people.  They need to address the employment issue.  It's not enough to require everyone to take 6 credits of Programming.  This is the latest experiment that I've seen
The story behind the new Catholic college that helps students avoid “crippling debt” (aleteia.org)